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99 SN GT40 Fuel Supply

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AMB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 1:17am
After my issue with the fuel pump relay switch, I thought I had a better than average comprehension of the fuel delivery system. It would have been better if the relay would have just quit. By going bad intermittantly, it gave me a lot of false positives when I was trouble-shooting.

This problem is elusive, and I have already dropped some big bucks, mainly the FCC. You can't buy just the electrical plug for it anymore, and I didn't think JB Weld was really safe, but I thought about it...

I appreciate all the input. I guess I am too stubborn to drag it up to Silver Spray, at least I am learning something.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slmskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 1:10am
There are a number of us GT-40 folks lurking on the forums (a number of them have quite a bit of experience with troubleshooting the ECC, etc.). So I'd say you are in good hands (keeping in mind how much you are paying for this advice....)   
Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 12:54am
I will try this out this week. If I can determine that the pumps are fine, then I can just focus on the electrical side of things, again, not my strongest area!

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slmskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 12:23am
Ignore the last paragraph. I was going to delete it after I changed the paragraph above it. :-)
Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slmskrs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 12:22am
One way to "rough" confirm the low pressure pump is working (when you jump the ECC test connector, this makes both pumps run with the key on but engine off--this is easier than jumping the pumps directly), is to listen for gas returning to the tank. The low pressure pump pumps from the tank to the FCC, and the overage flows back into the tank and you can hear it splashing (when the engine is off and the pumps are on). While using the jump, you can also isolate each pump by unplugging the other one (since they are on the same circuit). That way, with nothing but one pump on at a time, you should be able to hear if it is going on and off, etc. You can also check the voltage at the pump by using your tester in the DC volts setting and putting one lead on the hot side of the pump connector and the other side to ground and then turning on the pump circuit (don't do this with your multi-tester in Ohm setting, or you will either blow a fuse or kill the meter).

Also, since you said the pressure is jumping all over the place, it would be interesting to check the pump voltage when the pressure is jumping. Of course, if you jump it,
Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2012 at 12:13am
No fuse on my battery line. I have seen that has caused intermittent problems for some, but I don't have one. Good thought though.    

Here is a link to a video I made of the boat running in the driveway. I removed the regulator hose, and this time, the pressure had dropped to zero, but you can hear the rpms pick up a little. When I did this when the pressure was at 35 lbs, it jumped to 40.

You can hear the pumps sucking air as the pressure drops.

The boat ran great and then viola, this is what it did on the lake on the last ski ride for last season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hihpHcuNvY

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by AMB AMB wrote:

Lewy, what is the yellowish square-looking thing in the middle of your jumper lead?

This looks simple enough if I use an alligator clip with bare wire on the other end.

I am 99% sure this is an electrical short some where, so if the pump runs or primes, then this would be a good indication I am on the right track.

Thanks


Not my photo but it is just a fuse in case there is a short to power somewhere else in the circuit.

I have just used a piece of wire but the the inline fuse is a good idea.

As a matter of interest do you still have the large black fuse in your battery box?
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 11:41pm
I am just south of Toledo. The lake is alongside the Ohio turnpike. Look at Google Ski Sites, it is The Slalom Club (I know, real creative name).

My dad gave me the meter. I guess I have tested batteries with it, and that is about the extent of me using it.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 11:38pm
Lewy, what is the yellowish square-looking thing in the middle of your jumper lead?

This looks simple enough if I use an alligator clip with bare wire on the other end.

I am 99% sure this is an electrical short some where, so if the pump runs or primes, then this would be a good indication I am on the right track.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 11:07pm
Al you can make both pumps run by shorting the end terminal of the STO connector to ground (ECC Test connector above relays). You should have 39 +- 3psi with key on engine off and 31 +- 3psi at idle. With the vacuum hose removed at regulator and engine running you should see max pressure mine reads almost 44psi.

I would also check the volume of fuel the low pressure pump puts out.

If you're going through hell, keep going

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote harriss28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 10:49pm
Where do you take your boat in NW Ohio? I am in NE PA so we are neighbors. Im always looking for new lakes and camping.

As Pete said, set to Ohm range. Touch the probes together, and note the reading. The reading will be the same when a probe is grounded to block and the other on ground feed wire.



Shawn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 6:36pm
Al,
Set the meter to any Ohm range. What happens when you touch the two probes?

If one of the probes was grounded on the block and then you touched the ground wire feeding the pump with the other probe, what should happen?

What have you been using the meter for?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 5:30pm
Oh yea, I pulled the oil pressure sensor (smaller bell shaped senser) wire off and it is not the problem. I have read that a faulty sensor can send it into limp mode and shut down the pumps.

This boat has about 400 hours on it, looks like new, and has been a really strong runner up until this little speed bump..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 5:28pm
8122, I am somewhat electrically challenged. I have a meter, but really don't know how to use it very well.

How would I check for ground?

I have turned a few wrenches in my time, but not dealt with a lot of electrical stuff. My dad was the electrician, plumber, welder, etc....

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 4:59pm
Al,
Others I'm sure can comment. I can help with one item regarding the pump polarity. Just get the Ohm meter out and check which lead on the pump is ground.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2012 at 4:21pm
At the end of last seaon, after a couple passes through the course, my engine died when I applied power to take off. It would idle fine, but would die with a gasping sound every time I gave it gas. Couldn't even power up on the trailer.

Since that time, I booght a pressure gauge and have observed some very strange readings. It will run about 35 psi, then fluctuate widly and go to zero. I removed the Regulator hose and saw it momentarily jump to 40 psi, then go through all the ups and downs as before.

The pumps do not always prime, so I have been inclined to think it is a power issue to the pumps. I replaced the relays, as I had sufferred through that diagnosis two years ago, and have a two year old low pressure pump, ant-syphon valve, and kill switch to thank for that one.

The plugs and distributor cap and rotor are new.

The hi pressure pump and filter are new along with the FCC housing, as I developed a gas leak through the fitting on top of the old FCC when I was checking the hi pressure pump and filter. (that was a $450 ouch). I also replaced the 15 amp circuit breaker, as that seemed like it was frozen.

I completely drained the fuel tank when I repacked the rudder this spring, so I am pretty sure nothing in the tank is plugging the line. I have no in line filter, only the one in the fcc.

I have followed the electrical lines back to the fuses, and all connections seem clean and tight.

I want to jump the low pressure pump direct to the battery, and am making up some alligator clips to go direct to the low pressure pump to see if this makes a difference.

Does anyone know what terminal on the low pressure pump is positive vs negative? I am thinking I need to run off the battery to the positive post and vice versa for negative. I am thinking this might confirm that the low pressure pump is good.

The other question is what else can I look at that would cutoff power to the pumps? I replaced the relay this year, as I have two spare ones. That made the pumps prime, and I thought I might have fixed it like last time, but, that was just a coincidence of the problem.

What is odd is that the engine will not take gas, consistently. If the pumps are randomly running, you would think that I could at least get rpms randomly.

This one is a real head scratcher. The guys from Ski Dim and White Lake have been great, but we are just shooting at the sky right now, and the season is right around the corner. My dealer is no longer in business, and the next guy is 2 hours away, and I don't know him well.

Any ideas?

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