Prop removal questions... |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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The report is in! Like I said earlier I can't really comment on our tach numbers because are tach is not trustworthy. So, feel and top speed are all I have.
First: WOW!!! Cannot believe how much smoother it is throughout. from 0-45 no vibration, smooth clean power. Also, unlike with the 90, this boat has the power to turn the prop when slamming the throttle pulling a large number of skiers. Top speed on the GPS was 45 with myself and Dad in the boat, which is average. Around 25-30 is where I notice the big difference. Motor isn't rapping out and still has a lot of room on the tach to go faster. Feels great! I want to test out our 654 but will be reluctant to take this one off... |
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echobravoecho
Groupie Joined: March-14-2011 Location: Kansas City, KS Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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For what it's worth, I just used an Auto Zone tool loaner propram pulley puller to remove my stock prop from a 93 SN. 50 buck deposit, zero cost to me after I returned it. It was a tight fit, but it worked.
It took longer to jostle the puller and prop to a location where all the bits would clear the rudder. After that I put the screws to it and the prop broke free with a big bang after about 2 minutes and and 3 turns of the screw. I was left with three pieces: the prop itself, the "key" and a little wedge. Where does the little wedge go, and what is it's purpose? Thanks, Ed |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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Interesting Ed I have no idea what this little wedge you speak of could be...maybe others will know.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ed,
Post a picture of this "wedge". I don't know what it is ether. Is it a brocken piece of the key? Some were tapered on the front ends. |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Thanks for the topic guys, it was timely. I bought this as a backup prop:
Prop And then promptly needed it. I squirted the old prop down with pb blaster, and I mixed a little Hollywood advice and put the pressure on and left it over night. The next morning I just touched it with a torch and it popped right off. So now do I send the old stock prop off to get re manufactured? Is it worth it? Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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echobravoecho
Groupie Joined: March-14-2011 Location: Kansas City, KS Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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A new Acme 422 was delivered from Delta this morning. I'm still at work, but look forward to installing and testing it this week. I'll get a photo of the "wedge" and post. (it's the size of a fingernail)
This will replace the stock prop, which I drove onto the mud flats while seeking "smooth water" for my 9 yr. old. She was on the boom, and just got up on the trainer skis. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Ed,
Don't forget proper prop installation I'd hate to see you loose that new 422! |
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echobravoecho
Groupie Joined: March-14-2011 Location: Kansas City, KS Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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Thanks for the link to the lapping Procedure. Took about 5 minutes. Take a look at the results:
While we are at it, here's a look at the 422. Notice the machine work on the back? Is this typical of a new prop? And finally, the mysterious "wedge". I hope this fell from the sky when I was pulling the prop and landed right next to the key, cause it's not going back on. When there are more parts left over than what came off, that's known among engineers as "adding lightness". PS: Those aren't my toes! The nine yr. old is so excited to get back on the water she came out to help and couldn't keep her toes out of the photo. Ed |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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I'm not sure if it's the angle of the first photo, but it looks like your due for a new cut-less bushing.
And it looks like the shaft isn't aligned to well, it looks like its riding against the 7-8 o’clock part of the bushing. What do ya think Pete?? |
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Chopper
Gold Member Joined: June-15-2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 821 |
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The back of my 470 looked just like that. I assumed that they were "balancing" adjustments rather that rough cast related. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Paul, I agree. Ed, You had better check it. Also, the shot of the "wedge" isn't the greatest. How about another picture? You've got me real curious!! |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5776 |
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DId you happen to use a wood handled hammer while removing the prop because that looks like a handle wedge. Check your hammer maybe it fell out.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Alan, Thanks - now I see it!! I think you're correct. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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Looking at the two flat spots on the hub in the same picture, I think Alan guessed it right.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5776 |
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Ha I missed that but by the size of that wedge I think it was a universal prop removal tool AKA a BFH. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I guess that puller didn't work the greatest!! But, it was an Autozone loaner!! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Hey now Pete, how do you know those flats weren't already there from a previous removal? Give the guy a break.
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echobravoecho
Groupie Joined: March-14-2011 Location: Kansas City, KS Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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The auto zone puller worked great, plus it fit my budget. The prop damage was from a PO hack job.
I bent the prop on what basically was the shakedown cruise, and the drivetrain was vibrating enough already that I thought the prop needed some work even before I hit the mud. In fact if I didn't have the girls in the boat I'd a pulled it out of the water and gone thru the drive train. It vibrated enough that I didn't open it up to check top speed. Being mechnical but not nautical, when I found the shim I wondered if that was the cause of the vibration, installed at some point in the past to patch a massive defect. After working with the new prop and the lapping process, it's obvious that no such hack job could be perpetrated on the drive train and it still rotate. But the dents on the prop did explain some of the vibration, and now knowing that the cutlass bearing needs to be replaced explains the rest of the vibration. The prop shaft itself might also be bent. Is there a link to bearing replacement? I'll also need some intell on how the prop shaft transits the hull, and what parts are needed to refurb it. Thanks in advance and I'm already looking forward to a smooth running boat. Ed |
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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Mike, Did you ever test the 654? We ended up getting the 99 Sport and it has the stock OJ on it, but also came with an Acme weekend saver kit with a 654 in the bag . From our test ride I felt like the stock OJ was slipping a lot out of the hole, I'm thinking the Acme would be better. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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Hey Craig! Glad you got that boat, hope it works out well for you!
We have yet to try out the 654...We also have our hands on a 422 now. Not sure which would be the better ride on the sport, might try both before the summer's end. I really didn't like that stock OJ that came with it. Did not do it's job IMO! |
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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Well I think I'm going to try the 654. I'll let you know how it goes.
I think the new boat will suit our needs great. The Sport w/ the PCM transmission sounds like crap compared the BBC with the velvet, so the 85' is definitely more fun to cruise around in.... We may keep both, I like the looking out at the detached and seeing this. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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That looks beautiful :) We had that going on till about the end of June.
Dad was thinking about keeping the '90 but for what we do...we'd just never use it. They wanted to pay some more down on the new boat. haha |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Better late than never that was almost 12 months ago. Yesterday was such a pleasant late Autumn day. Far to good to be in the office doing paperwork for the Tax department. Conditions 26C(79F) No wind. 98 Sport GT40 full tank of fuel driver 88kg(195lbs) and 30kg(66lbs)dog in bow walk through. GPS PP Stargazer readings. ACME 422 12.5 X 15.5 OJ 13 X 16 Legend (Original) 2000rpm 14.5 mph 2000rpm 14.1 mph 3000rpm 29.1 mph 3000rpm 28.0 mph 4000rpm 37.5 mph 4000rpm 36.5 mph 4500rpm 40.3 mph 4500rpm 39.8 mph 4940rpm 42.0 mph 4970rpm 42.7 mph Added 400lb Fatsac in rear locker and rerun WOT tests 4960rpm 42.3 mph 4990rpm 43.1 mph The top speed is disappointing especially when others have top speeds over 45mph with less rpms on same hull. The engine feels strong but does have a few hours on it. The rpms achieved indicate that it is pulling well just not getting good speed numbers. I have seen 5200rpm on this engine previously but that was with a Acme 470 which only lasted one day on the boat as the rpms were 200-300 higher right through the range. The original tach in boat is quite accurate but the Stargazer one gives you 10rpm increments hard to read the analog that fine. The water was glass and this may have slowed boat. No chop or ripple to get some air under the hull. The reference section had some numbers for the Sport and SN for 95 and 96. Not sure if these numbers would have been GPS certified but 46.6mph for the Ski and 47.5mph for the Sport. I remember the first time I found those number I was surprised that the larger Sport hull was faster. In 98 the factory did some small changes to rear chine cutout plus reduced the shaft angle. I wonder if that slowed the boat down over the previous Sport 93-97? Mike or Steve did you ever get full GPS readings on your hull with either the Acme 1442 or 422. Especially interested in the numbers for the 1442 Mike. Pete or Tim do you think I would have enough hull clearance with the 1442 prop. The 12.5" 422 has 1.375". The 13.25" 1442 would have only 1" by my calcs. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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on the big stuff and i dont know if its needed on the smaller props, but we sweated one on yesterday and i finally discovered what the meaning was to "sweat" a prop on. we got the prop as tight as it could go, and i mean tight, then we flash heated the prop for about 10 minutes, and got about another 3/4' turn on the nut. but as we flash heated the prop, you could see it actually sweat on the blades.
I dont suggest heating your prop and i will do some looking on seating smaller props. I have noticed in the past though when taking props off that the nut at times is loose and thats because over time it advances more onto the shaft from the thrust of the boat and the nut loosens |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Yes, you'd have room to run that 1442 (I believe Mike has tried it on his Sport as well). I probably wouldnt though, as it will turn ~200 more RPM than the 422, so very similar to the 470. Youre propped just right if your turning just under 5k.
The big discrepancy between the speed and RPM would suggest that you have a slow hull. Where does the spray break when youre at skiing speeds (30+)? My '90 also has a slow hull... runs very nose planted: Short of taking a grinder to the hull and removing some hook, theres not a lot you can do about that. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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Hey sorry I must have UN-subscribed from this thread for some reason...
I'll work on getting some numbers. I never have time for fiddle faddle I just kinda wing it and go by what feels good to me. Had the 422 on the sport yesterday after a full recondition from ACME and I didn't really like it all that much........ 654 still my favorite though by far. If my memory serves well none of our props were under the 44mph mark on GPS. They were all 44-45 with one driver and rider full tank of fuel. |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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the grinding on the new acme is normal---balancing the prop
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This is the life
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Andy,
I must have lost your idea here?
Are you talking about Tim's comment?
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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No no , sorry Pete I shoulda used the quote feature
Ed had asked way back up the thread about his new acme having machining marks(grinding) |
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This is the life
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Andy, Got it! I even went back in the thread briefly looking to see if I could figure out your comment! Thank's for clearing up my confusion. |
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