Carburator - can see a lot of Gas thru air valvas

Daniel,

I was out of town for the weekend with no access to the site so I'm just catching up now. Glad to hear that you're up and running again.

I will do the links correct in future.

Yes, your German is correct!

Let me add one last Thing to my post: Do NOT Forget to Close up any hole you made in your hull to drain water BEFORE you get the boat in the lake again...

greetings daniel

daniel1978 wrote: by the way: here you can the holley 703-29 kit (whitch fits my sn) very cheep at the Moment http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290935566894

Daniel,
For the convenience of all, here;s a proper link.

The CCfan site does not automatically create links when you paste an address. You need to use the "post reply" and click on the world icon. The first box that shows up is where you want to put the description. Clicking OK will bring up a second box where you past the address.

So I edit my last post to give you the whole way to my solution and the steps where I had Problems:

But first the video of the first (real) run after a very long time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1bKFaKwzYE
In case you wonder what "er rennt, er raucht net" means:
it runs! it runs! and it don't even smoke!

Before:
The boat was not used for 2 years or so. After that, the engine did not start anymore. So I searched for a marine meachanic - not easy in Austria (there is no sea here...) and found one who claimed that he can fix my engine.

He did, cashed about 550 $, destroyed my starter motor and the boat ran on the Trailer. After he drove of and half an hour later I tried to start again. It took quite a time until it came alive and there was a lot of smoke. I called him, he said he step by the next day. He came, startet and everything was fine. An hour later not so fine anymore.

I decided to let it go and the boat stood a year.

2013 I tried to start again - no Chance at all. So I decided to repair myself. It was clear, that the Problem had to be the carbonator, because it was not possible to Change the idle mixture at all - always a lot of smoke in the past.

I disassambled the carb and found a very interesting Thing: behind the power valve is an empty room where under pressure can pull at the valve. In this chamber are a few holes and below that holes everything was black, above silver. It turned out, that the power valve was ok, but not tightend up right. Since I was rebuilding with a repair kit I changed it and the gasket, however, the old one would work too.

I put everything together (new gakets and rubber rings of course) but the engine drained every start attempt.

To make a Long Story short: the Problem was the float adjustment. You have to know (Eddie told us a lot of times), that in holley and nautique Manuals the say the float has adjusted with the fuel bowl upside down and has to be parallel. That is not true at all, since in a boat the carb is not horezontal to the fuel in the fuel bowl. As well, as the secondary may work that way (since the onenings are higher becuase the carb goes down at the rear end) the Primary holes in the fuel bowl are even lower. So that is NOT always true. I tell you, better to set the float to low (especially in the primary) then to high, because to high will drain the engine - very bad Thing: oilchange, oilfilterchange, possible starter Motor destroying....

ALSO there are needles with different length from holley around. No Problem if you adjust the float so, that it will work. Also I realised: you can bend the metal part of the float (so the angle while upside down will Change) OR you can bend the small part which acutally touches the needle - so the float may NOT Change its Position upside down, but will give a different fuel Level!

In my case, I bent the float really hard (see Picture of primary) AND the boat stood on the Trailer in a way, that the carb is horezontal, it started. see Picture of Primary float:


There is a way to check if the float is to high in a way, that you can not harm the boat and yourself:
-) remove ALL SPARK PLUGS and cables (make sure to mark them for the right Position)
-) remove the low voltage cable to the EMS in the back of the engine (you have to unsrew the securescrew) - if you have no ems, remove the whole ingition Distributor box - make sure there is NO spark at all because there could come out liquid gas from the cylinders.
-) remove the airfilter from the carb
-) give no throttle at all
-) start (ok not start but run) with the starter Motor 4 to 6 times for 30 seconds (there is no compression now, so it will not damage the starter Motor)
-) while that look in the carb from above
-) if you see no gas at all: it should be fine - theoreticly - it is possible that in the water something is different because of the angle of you Trailer or ground
-) if it is dry, put everything togehter - if not, adjust the float lower

Then make sure to set the electric choke in the middle of the scale (see Manual for that).

Set the Idle mixture screws (one left one right) fully in (to the right as far they go) and 1 or 1 and a half turn to the left (in my case 1 turn did the trick for the first start because of the next paragraph).

In my Szenario also was the Problem, that the idle gas (that what you can Change where the throttle cable Comes to the carb) was way to high. In my first start attempt after the float was correct the engine drained again, because of that! If you are not sure, screw the screw out really far and give quater to half throttle to start the first time.

PLEASE CHECK AT START ATTEMPT IF ANY GAS COMES OUT OF THE CARB!
I destroyed a lot of gaskets from the pipe which connectes the Primary and secondary gas bowl!

So remember: if your engine draines: pull down the float Level extreme, especually the Primary one!

So onve again: thank you Eddie!
and thank all who cared to read or write that post.

As of today my engine is running fine, also the idle is now at 800 (lower as ever before) with no Problems.

also do:
- check belt straings and tightens
- check idle mixture and Speed (to high could damage gears)

greetings Daniel - will post when the boat is in the water again...

This is the type of thread that we all learn something from.

Congratulations on finding the cause!

EDIT
IF YOU READ TO READ THE WHOLE THREAD, read on
IF YOU READ TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR A SIMULAR PROBLEM, skip and read my next post
EDIT

@backfoot100 alias Eddie

YOU ARE MY HERO!

After 1,5 year I heard my engine running

Video of the first run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1bKFaKwzYE
In case you wonder what "er rennt, er raucht net" means:
it runs! it runs! and it don't even smoke!

ok, it ran only until I tried to adjust the idle Speed - but it ran!

After I bent the float really hard (see Picture of primary) AND the boat stood on the Trailer in a way, that the carb is horeozental, it started. see Picture of Primary float:


Good news:
-) can start engine when engine is cold
-) no Explosion at all until now
-) choke is moving while start attempt
-) I sanded and colored the plate
-) no dead children while testing
-) now something changes if I turn on the idle screws (after the mechanic nothing happend and the Motor had alwas about 1200 rpm idle)

bad news:
-) engine can not start when block is warm
-) I have no idea how to adjust the electric choke
-) does not run with idle Speed lower 1000 rmp

my next question is: how to adjust the choke - I could not find out with the carb Manual until now.

Infos for England (you know what I mean):
- pull down the float Level extreme, especually the Primary one! (you can check that your carb is not running when putting out all spark plugs and make sure there is no ignition spark (I disconnected the EMS power)and start for quite a Long time withput flame resistor while looking into the carb (no ignition no danger! BUT PUT OUT SPARK PLUGS so that the gas can not self-inflame) if no gas is there, you are on the right way
- my idle adjustment with the first lucky start was full to the right an ONE turn to the left of both idle adjustments
- I used NO gas at all from the throttle when the engine came to live

thank you Eddie!

Hello Eddie

So it will be ok if the float is NOT parallel (green and blue) so the needle Closes earlier?

Can you gess how big the distance of float and bowl has to be?

thanks daniel

yes, both o rings are new and the tube is very hard to push in

at backfoot100:

Before I start writing: Thank you for your time!

Since my english is not that good - especially with These specialized Terms (you see, even my Internet Explorer changes a lot of lower case to upper case letters because it thinks we are writing german), act as you write to an idiot please!

I did NOT Change the float itself - i don't have them Jet and there is no gas inside even when I disassemble the carb when it is full of gas.

Take a look to this photo:



-) It took a while, until I realised that I have to hold the gasbowl UPSIDE DOWN to adjust - even in german books that was not clear to me.
-) I am thinking UNTIL NOW that the green and blue line should be parallel after adjustment when fuel bowl is upside down
-) I am thinking UNTIL NOW that the gas sould be as high as the golden metal part in normal Operation, and the float is unter liquid gas until the area where it is getting thicker (parallel to the blue line)
-) UNTIL NOW I Think that to adjust the float, I simple BEND the metal between float and needle at one Point - are you saying, that I have to bend TWO Points of this metal, that the float is again parallel BUT the distance of the new parallel is larger than now?
-) should I think NOW, that any other lines have to be parallel after adjustment?

please enlighten me....

PS: thanks for your nice words about my repair attempts - actually it is my first Problem which I could not solve until now. And I do a lot with pinball machines from the last 50 years (my Hobby) and I even changed gears in a MAN Autobus and repaired my Ferguson 35x Traktors diesel pump...

Text:

FAQ:
Q: Why are there a lot of scratches on parts where gasket should be?
A: Because the original gaskets really stuck on the carb. I needed several hours to scratch them of.

Q: What is with the power valve and gasket?
A: Both new, thightend very strong

Q: Whats with the needles?
A: Both new, even the old ones look exactly the same

I bould a test place to check the pressure with an handpump - the carbs primary did let gas thru at ~7 psi, so I changed the float to put more pressure on the needle (lower Pictures). After that nearly 10 psi would not leak.

I installed the carb and the engine was flooded with gas.

So. After I started thinking again, and called a few People which Claim to know about holley carbs, I removed ALL Spark Plugs and disabled the EMS, so I can run the starter (and with it the fuel pump) without the fireresistor and no danger.

I saw and wounderd: a lot of gas coming out of the Primary. I changed the float again and the Primary was fine. But the secondary flooded - so I changed that too.

I run the starter again and the carb DID NOT LEAK at all.

I reassambled EMS and Sparks and Plugs and tryed to start.

You guess right: engine flooded!

So I checked the fuel pump pressure: about 6 PSI - everything fine I think...

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING WRONG HERE?!

Must I really order a replacement carb?

PS: maybe a colleg from carinthia will borow me another one and I can check everything else....

PPS: Is it ok to test a Car Carb on dry land if the machine is running at all?

greetings daniel

at backfoot100:

Hello!

Acutally, I have two books (german of course) and disassembled and reasambled the whole Thing about 5 times now.

Meanwhile ALL Fitting parts are changed 2 times, and I can not find the Problem. Please read also my next Posts...

thanks daniel

at gR@HaM

Of course! My Family and I are looking Forward to a sponsored trip to England - can we stay at your house? ;-)

greetingsd aniel

Does your carb have a accelerator pump transfer tube between the metering block and the main body? You may have used the wrong gasket which can give you a rich issue because you are pulling fuel from the accelerator pump circuit.

Hi!

I have no exact pressurelevel I put to the carb - however, the needle is new and leveled exactly like in the restore kit told from holley.
No I did not Change the pump...

greetings daniel

The last start attempt (without choke, choke valve manually opend) was again a disaster. Relly much gas ran thru the air channel, just on single fire attempt from the engine. Where do I get a carbonator in Austria?!

greetings daniel