1960 Atom Skier Fin Boat Recondition |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Been a while since I posted. In the process of constructing a car port/ workshop area in Fl so I can move my equipment and unfinished projects here to finish them.
Looking forward to seeing folks at SJRR again. I have been communicating or should i say trying to with a well known engine rebuilder in NJ that owns the Gray Marine stuff also now that the company has gone out of business. He said he had a process to restore my exhaust manifolds in this boat. Since then I have sent pictures of them and no responce so I am a bit concerned about the follow through. Pete mentioned a place I think in Ill that can restore wet manifolds I think. If you have that information Pete I would love to have it. I have purchased another engine to put in this boat but would prefer to get the original back together if possible as the rest of the engine is in good working order. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jack, Here's the place Who's gone out of business? Gray parts in Illinois or the one in NJ you mention? |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Thanks for the info Pete. I spoke with Buck from Crow and he wants pictures to start. Sending them this morning. I was optimistic about the other guys process where he bored out the bad area and inserted a brass sleve with high teck glues. Said he had very low failure rate. VanNess Engineering. If determined mine were salvagable i was going to ship them to NJ for the repair. Sad to say the communication has been poor to say the least. He told me that he bought out what was left of Gray Marine I think is what he said. Said he had many parts. Shall see where this goes with Buck and take it from there. I do have the spare engine that I think may well be a running setup and that coould go it this boat but I would like to complete what I have started. Already had the heads reworked and the rest is fine.
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jack,
Be careful with VanNess. I've heard good and bad and lately more of the bad. I'd also worry about the "high tech" adhesive/brass sleeve process. The concern is with the expansion rate difference between copper and cast iron. In a manifold, you are dealing with some fairly large delta T's. It will be interesting to hear what Crow comes up with. I know he's been successful with the Gray manifolds before. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I had good luck with Crow, as far as I know. They look good, like a manifold should, but I haven't run them yet. My manifolds are aluminum so a much easier repair IMO, but he returned them on time and at estimate. I followed Petes recommendation and found Buck very accommodating.
BTW, any Fin Boat photo is enjoyed. I'm one of it's biggest fans. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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It must have been your thread where I last read the name Crow Welding John. Wish I had a picture of interest but no new changes until I get the engine issues resolved. The boat has been sitting here in Fl under my carport for a year but it did make an appearence in Tavares last winter. I am sure you have seen plenty of pictures from that event. Have been cleaning the bilge area and plan to get that painted as the engine problems get worked out and then if need be I will be going to CT to get the other engine I bought last summer to put in it. Hope not to have to go that route.
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jack,
What's the other engine you bought last summer? |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Hey Pete, I bought another AMC 327 complete engine one year diff on Ebay last year. It was in a guys garage for a while and his friend was selling off his stuff. Seems he got shot by a jealous husband, but I digress. It came from Ohio and Zack hauled it out to Ct for me when he came to the get together at Tims place. I have not started it but I do think it will be a good engine. It is sitting in a crate in my garage in CT. I believe if I remember right it is one year off from mine in production and the same 188 HP side drafts all identical. I also have the AMC 327 that goes in the Starflite my son and I bought. That is a 225 HP. It was rebuilt just before we bought the boat as I understand it. Have heard that one run.
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jack,
What's the rotation on the 327/188? |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Pete, They were both mounted up flywheel aft and TBH I haven't compared to see if they have the same rotation. I know it wouldn't be the first time that Murphy has gotten me but I am guessing/ hoping they are the same. When I bought the 188 I was mainly interested in getting extra parts especially the manifolds. I guess if it came from a twin screw I might be screwed LOL. Wouldn't be the first time.
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I have made considerable progress toward getting this skier back on the water. Buck Crow determined that one of my exhaust manifolds was probably not repairable and he went about finding suitable, repairable if necessary replacements. within a day or two got back to me and said he found a pair and he put my in contact with the guy that had them on a shelf. I brought out another thousand to lubricate the wheels of progress and the guy went ahead and pressure tested them. they hold pressure and in need of sleeve repair in some bolt areas. they are being repaired now and will ship to me this week. I am working to clean and paint the bilge area and getting the engine back together and painted up. Would appreciate if anyone knew a source for marine gasket head set or complete gasket set for this engine. I can get the passenger car one from ebay etc but not sure if it will be ok. Trying to reach the Gray Marine Parts folks is like trying to communicate with VanNess Engineering. Virtually impossible!!
Thanks to Pete for the recommendation and reference to Crow Welding. Also to John who gave me confidence to trust Buck Crow as John had had good results also from him. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I'm no expert, but I would think the automotive gasket set would work.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Yes |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I have ordered the gasket set. Thanks for the advice. Would like to get some paint that matches the original color. AMC or is it Gray Marine red. The folks at the Gray Marine Parts online do not answer their emails or phone. Seems I have heard that about them before. They advertise that they have the paint, so it makes me think it is available somewhere else. Any guesses as to where?
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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If you have a part with relatively intact paint, such as a valve cover you can take it in to a Ditzler-PPG auto paint store and have it matched. Most stores are able to put the paint into an aerosol can. It is my understanding that paint in an aerosol can does not have hardener mixed into it because it must be used immediately after the hardener is added, so it's not quite as durable as the mixture a body shop would use . Someone with more knowledge can fill you in on that.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I think there is a problem with the high temp John. Took a part to just such a store yesterday and they had nothing. It was a PPG. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I don't believe heat is a concern on marine engines. The surface temperature of most components is lower than that of the hood of a black car parked in the Tucson sun.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Engine enamel is fine. High temp isn't needed. I do suggest using an engine enamel primer first. It makes a BIG difference on how the top coat covers.
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Dvanness
Newbie Joined: March-23-2015 Location: Nj Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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First of all hear say is immoral
I have repaired several hundred manifolds over the years and so far not one returned..... not to say there could not be a failure. I spend most of my day on the phone helping customeers I have in the course of a year my phone log shows over 3000 calls. No one can make everyone happy but since we have been in business as of last hear we had rebuilt something over 2200 engines, I have two phone lines a fax line a public cell and a published home number. I take calls seven days a week As of now we have 57 engines in the shop for rebuild, I was severly injured when a custermer did not properly secure his engine to a pallet and it hit me in the head detaching both retinas This eook over a year to resolve itself. This forum should be positive and not about bashing vendors that try to resolve complicated problems |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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David,
Welcome to CCfan. I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you have made a great recovery. I'm also sorry that you feel some statements made are "hear say". |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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I am sorry to have caused a ruckus over the service I received from Mr. Vanness. My intention was never to bash him rather I was trying to get good information on how to get out of the pickle I was in with my exhaust manifolds. Rest assured however it is not heresay.
That said the good news next. Delivery guy came yesterday. Two heavy boxes. Said what you have in these heavy boxes some manifolds. I said why yes I do. Thank you Metro Marine Service, New Brighton, Mn. the salvaged exhaust wet manifolds were fresh water use and needed new inserts in the long bolt hole areas. This done they were pressure tested and sent out. Not an inexpensive operation but for unobtainable parts I was happy to have the good service and prompt turn around. Also I might add that communication was key to making this project come to fruition. Reassembly has begun and paint in hand to complete the project. I need to review my skills on posting pictures as I seem to have lost my touch. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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The key is to resize them down to under 100 KB. I use paint, but there are 20 other ways to do it too. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Think my problem is that I am on my Ipad. I have done it so many times before and the photobucket usually resizes them properly. Ipad can be limiting in its capabilities and then so am I in mine. |
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5768 |
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Dave (Dvanness) Sorry to hear about your accident but glad that you're on the mend. Running your own small business is difficult at best but when you are an everyday working part of that business and you go down things can spiral very quickly. I know that if I take a few days vacation I usually come back to sort of mini disaster each time so I can't imagine what your injury has cost you.
All I can say about Van Ness Engineering from personal experience is they were able to not only rebuild the somewhat rare water pump for my first gen Hemi but also over-nighted it to me so I could get to Green lake with a working water pump. Dave also has given me more than my share of free advice on the hemi, many phone calls with no money changing hands. I think he's a stand up guy with probably not enough hours in the day. As for the Grey marine guys I have no idea what their problem is but I don't know of anyone that's been able to contact them and that includes me living about 15 minutes from them when they first bought the old inventory. I am so glad I gave up on the 327 and went the Chrysler route. |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Greetings Allen, Your comments about Dave Van Ness are spot on. I am sure his work is beyond reproach and not being an ingrate I must say that Dave spent a good deal of time with me on the phone explaining my options. I am sure the communication situation was a result of his accident which I feel bad for.
I think that the main weakness with the Fireball 327 is the inability to get replacement exhaust manifolds. It is bullet proof otherwise. The side draft carbs can be finicky but the other engine options for the Starflite and Atom were Y blocks that also had the Carter YF side drafts. I have read recently that the 255 hp one that we have in the Straflite was a very fast engine for it's time. I now have an extra and think I am somewhat committed LOL. |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Summer almost here. Will the Atom be ready this year?
Bilge painted Power almost ready |
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bwinn
Senior Member Joined: July-13-2009 Location: ct Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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You could eat off that bilge!! Nice work !
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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That looks amazing. It may show my age but I prefer the side drafts over any other setup for appearance. I like how it fits under the original motor cover too. I also love the Y blocks but yours has a bit more charachter IMO. I assume the manifolds are on par with the rest.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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BOy, that is coming along nicely!!!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Jack,
It's look'n great. Yup, get that thing in the water! Don't go too crazy with the non original wiring with things like modern wire/tubing clamps. They are very easy to spot. CC would have used the copper insulated wire staples that have been around for years. They still make them. McMaster sells them. |
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