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lewy2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prestolite Points
    Posted: November-09-2008 at 10:13am
Does anyone have a part number for the points in Prestolite screw down cap dizzy. (89 SN)

Are the points used in any other Automotive applications?

Trying to source from normal automotive parts store in Australia. I know I can buy from Skidim but the freight to Aus for just points is not justifiable.

I dont want to change to EI would just like to replace points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2008 at 9:11am
No ideas anyone?

When I was doing a bit of a mini tuneup/check before boats initial water test. I found a problem with the points.

The timing was fine 10 degrees BTDC @ 600rpm and got to just below 30 degrees at 4000rpm actually was a bit earlier but did not record.

The problem was the dwell was only about 16 degrees the specs say this prestolite should be between 29-33 degrees. The points gap was a bit close but the points were fairly worn and not very flat. After filing flat and re gaping to 18 thou I have about 20 degrees of dwell and the timing is now about 12 degrees.

To get the 29-33 would require a huge gap. The rubbing block on the points arm is very worn. I am assuming this is why I cant get the dwell close?

I even tried a different dwell meter the reading was the same.

The engine still runs fine but have not water tested under load yet. Trying to replace the points before I do this.

Any help with sourcing of automotive equivalent points would be appreciated.

The plugs were also a bit of a worry they were Champion RV15YC4's gaped at 35 thou. They were very black but the motor has only been idling.

The recommended plug states Champion RBL11Y??

Never been a Champion fan usually prefer Denso's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2008 at 9:36am
Lewy,
Were're slowing down over here on the other side of the world as some of us are going into the winter sleep mode. You on the other hand are the opposite! It just means that you may need to wait awhile before someone who knows the exact point part # checks into the site.

With the distributor part #, did any of your sources over there pull up a points #? It's not a marine specific part.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2008 at 12:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaurelLakeSkier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2008 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

No ideas anyone?


Sorry...can't help on the part number but I can give a bit of info on your adjustments. First off, the point gap and dwell setting are really adjusting the same thing. They are just measuring it in different ways, one with a dwell meter (the more accurate of the two), the other with a feeler gauge. Second of all, be sure you do your dwell or point gap adjustment first, then check and adjust your timing. This is important since changing the dwell/point gap will change the timing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2008 at 12:18am
Lewy - Earlier this year I was able to take the part # info stamped in the base of the dizzy to NAPA & they were able to get a cap & rotor for me. If you post your # then I would be willing to stop at NAPA & see what they can look up. It would probably be a NAPA # however so I am not sure it would be of much help down under.

I searched the web & came up with this source:

The Prestolite divisions which manufacture direct current (DC) motors, switches, contactors, and electronic ignition systems (distributors) were sold to Ametek in 2000.

Any questions regarding these kinds of parts should be directed to Ametek. Contact information can be found on their website at:
www.ametek.com

Ametek
37 North Valley Road Building 4
P.O. Box 1764
Paoli, PA 19301
Tel: 610-647-2121
Toll: 1-800-473-1286
Fax: 610-296-3412 U.S.A


Let me know.
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lewy2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2008 at 8:15am
SNob the numbers on the distributor were 7020S 8 M 42 I think this is the model number there is also another number E5JL-12100-CA.

These small numbers are getting harder to read as the years pass may be due for glasses soon.

I did a bit of searching last night and found the following site:-

Prestolite Marine Distributor parts

It shows a model number of IBM 7020S which matches up with one of the numbers on distributor.

Points Part No. 18-5303
Rotor Part No. 18-5403
Condensor No. 18-5340

Tried these part numbers at my local parts place who supplies to the Trade but without success. It appears as that everything here relates back to a Bosch cross reference. He had a book with pictures of all contact set configurations but could not match any of them up with the Prestolite points.



Hopefully you can get another part number that I can try. If possible get a Bosch equivalent number.

Thanks for your offer of help.

I ended setting the points gap to 25thou to get the minimum dwell angle of 29 degrees then had to retard timing back to 10 BTDC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2008 at 10:06am
Lewy - Here is some inf:

http://www.boatersland.com/sie18-5258.html


Click to enlarge


Item #: SIE18-5258
Availability: Usually ships the next business day.
   
Price: $11.15







CONTAINS
Sierra #             O.E. #             Description
18-5303        392-6325        Contact Set
18-5347        392-6324        Condenser
18-5407 3        92-6326        Rotor
Prestolite 8 cyl.

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lewy2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2008 at 9:05pm
Thanks for that SNob(Chris)

Will try them numbers today with my parts man.

Our boats are almost twins. I even have the same high pole as yours. I noticed in the brochure that my clour is actually cranberry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2008 at 9:20pm
Hi Lewy

The clip down cap and the screw down cap use the same points and I wrote a bunch of cross reference numbers down about 25 years ago.

Here goes
Delco A-105PV
Standard AL-5677P
Sorenson AL-26HV
Echlin CS-720A
Filko 74-1075
Niehoff AL-11HV
along with the NAPA and Sierra number listed above

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 8:44am
Thanks KENO I should be able to get a cross reference off one of them numbers.

I vaguely remember seeing a Echlin book at my parts guy's shop today. I had no luck with the 392 numbers. I was looking thru all of his books and found some pictures of contact sets in a Champion book. The S85V Champion set looked close it states it is for a Dodge or International truck. I wonder if they used a prestolite dissy.

Took the boat out for water test today. It runs fine up to 3500rpm then runs very rough. I dont think it is ignition related will replace fuel filter and check breather & anti syphon valve. It felt like it was starving for fuel.

I will buy some new Plugs also, unable to source Autolite or Motorcraft and the Champion RBL11Y plug on the engine spec sheet have been replaced by RV12YC plugs. This is a slightly colder plug than the Champion RV15YC4 that are currently in the boat. Do you think a hotter plug will be OK? Probably will spend most of the time around 2-2.5K(20-23mph) Revs boarding with the odd single ski run at around 30mph.

Can get NGK, Denso, Champion and Bosch plugs have read a bit in the archives that some of the cross reference plugs are not quite right for these engines. Should I stay with the Champions?? The NGK cross reference plug was a BR6FS which turned out to be a colder plug than the RV12YC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 10:30am
Lewy - Can't answer on the plugs but do know that the condenser is not the same for clip down vs. screw down caps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 11:44am
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Lewy - Can't answer on the plugs but do know that the condenser is not the same for clip down vs. screw down caps.

Not true. I put the same sets of points and condensor in both my Tique (clip down) and Skier (newer screw down) this past summer. The caps are obviously different, not sure about the rotor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 3:33pm
The caps and rotors are different

The points and condenser are the same

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 8:07pm
I got a freebie set of points & condensor from a friend who had EI. The condensor wouldn't fit, was backwards. I just reused the old one. The kit was from SkiDim.

Don't know why my experience was different, but this is true in my case.

Maybe it has something to do with my std rotation vs. his RR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I got a freebie set of points & condensor from a friend who had EI. The condensor wouldn't fit, was backwards. I just reused the old one. The kit was from SkiDim.

Don't know why my experience was different, but this is true in my case.

Maybe it has something to do with my std rotation vs. his RR.

Nope, theyre not rotation-specific either. The only thing that is different between a LH and RH Ford distributor is the gear on the end of the shaft.

There is no specific orientation to the condensor- there is likely more than one way to mount it using the bracket provided. As long as its held down safely and the copper connector attaches cleanly to the points, youre golden. The kits I installed in my 2 Prestolites were from SkiDIM as well. Hope you didnt throw yours out!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 8:44pm
It really was backwards. I remembering pondering how to make it work, but it needed the lead to come out of the opposite end of the can. I doubt if I kept it. I would take a picture of the issue if I had it & the boat here together. It's not enough of an issue to dwell on, but please believe me it would not fit & it wasn't a matter of just bending the lead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2008 at 11:13pm
OK, my OCD kicked in & I went out & found the errant condensor. (What kind of packrat saves a part that doesn't even work?).

My boat is 50 miles away, so I looked at SkiDim's catalog. Well the answer is right there.

See the 2 photos below, the mounting bkt on the condenser is opposite on the screwdown vs. the clipdown kit.

I would be willing to ship (domestically), free, this clipdown condenser to anyone who wants to show me how to make it fit properly in a screw down dizzy.

I rest my very solid case.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 9:11am
Yep the Echlin number worked CS-720A cross referenced to a Bosch GA-94V. My parts guy ordered them there was only a few sets in the country. Will probably take a couple of days to arrive.

Thanks for your help SNob & KENO. It was stated that they were for Dodge Cars & Trucks, Chrysler cars and Hudson. Not sure of what year & model though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 10:37am
Hi SN

You slide the condenser out of the bracket and put it in the other way.

Keno
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 10:40am
Bracket is welded on. Sorry, but I am correct on this one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 11:43am
The bracket should not be welded on- but it is very tight, making it a PITA to remove. KENO is right on the money here- the bracket and condensor were not attached in the kit I got from SkiDIM. Even if they were, both my clip down and screw down need the terminal oriented the same way, IIRC (like the lower picture). That copper cable isnt very rigid anyways- a half twist would probably work too.

Notice that the condensor that SkiDIM sells is described as fitting "Prestolite-ALL".

My screw down dizzy is in the basement- ship that condensor to me if you want to see it fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 7:09pm
Chris,
I did a tune up on my 4 cyl. Mercruiser last summer and the condenser didn't even come with a bracket. Trying to remove the old one to use, I too thought it was welded on and even looked for spot weld marks! Some work was need to R&R it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 7:58pm
Hey Lewy

The first time I bought points at an auto parts store using a cross ref number from the original ones, the guy behind the counter wanted to know if they were for a 49 Dodge or something like that.

It was easier to just say Yep that's what they go to.

As far as condensers and welded? on brackets, pull out a little tweaker and pry the bracket off of the condenser SN. Some take more work than others but you can do it.

Keno


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 8:43pm
You guys win!

The condenser can be jury rigged by breaking the bracket off (it is spot welded on) & using a different bkt. I myself am going to get the right part.

My original point was there are 2 different condensers in SkiDims kits & I proved that.

Tim - you are on, but no fair breaking the bracket off.

I will PM you for shipping address.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2008 at 8:49pm
Hey SN

I didn't know this was a winners/losers thing.

Just trying to help out. Send your old one to TR Benj.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2008 at 2:16am
Managed to delve through a few more ignition books at my mates auto store.

Keno you were close:-

Chrysler New Yorker 58-62
Dodge Imperial 58-60
Dodge 65-67 383,413,426
Dodge Truck 58-60
Hudson 56-58

When you tell the auto store employee it is for a boat with a 351W in it you get a blank look at the best.

All they want to know is what car it is out of and what year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 91nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2008 at 4:55am
Lewy

Aussie built Fords came out with a 302 & 351 windsor (points dist) up until the XW Falcon.

The part numbers I got after looking it up was

(Bosch) GF824V
or
(Champion) PTS1205

Follow it up that way and see how you go

edit- The book only shows them as being fitted with Prestolite dist..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2008 at 7:07am
91nautique these boats have Prestolite marine distributors fitted totally different dissy to what we used on 302/351 Windsors out here. But thanks for the thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 91nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-14-2008 at 7:47am

Lewy,

I have a 302 w with marine distributor in in my workshop, I will have a look at it tomorrow- I would have thought the points would have been the same though..

Pity you didn't post this up a couple of months ago, I just sold a marine electronic dist for a 351 w for 50 bucks.

If you can source a 351 or 302 cleveland marine dist they can easily be modified to suit the w- if you have a lathe. (unlike the windsor the 302-351 cleveland use the same dist)
If you want to go that way I can give you the specs.

To get up and running why not throw one of these in there, they are available without vac advance

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ford-Windsor-HEI-50-000-Volt-Pro-Comp-
Distributor_W0QQitemZ320316805460QQihZ011QQcategoryZ15
8509QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
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