to foam or not to foam |
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extxlonghorn
Newbie Joined: January-21-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: May-04-2006 at 11:56pm |
I am the greenest of the green peas! I have been reading and learning an am now at the cross road... I am restoring an 86' nautique, and the floors are now on tap. Here is my dilemma, it seems as though there is about a 50/50 split here as to whether or not to re-foam the floor like factory or just replace and hollow the floor and use plywood. Is the hollow floor not "banging" in waves and will the foam not "refill" with moisture like the original. Which way is best?
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coreytread
Senior Member Joined: October-05-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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Is your foam saturated, if not dont even worry. Im a newbie myself but am mid way through a resto From what Ive heard redoing the foam is only necessary if it is full of water.otherwise its no problem, Im not doing anything to the foam in my 77 its dry as can be.
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extxlonghorn
Newbie Joined: January-21-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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it was very wet and very heavy. I took it all out, it probably weighed 3-400 lbs total!
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coreytread
Senior Member Joined: October-05-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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I would have to say refoam, the guys that are restoring my boat questioned the foam when I first brought it in, after seeing it was dry they opted not to do it, very labor intensive from how they acted. I wouldnt leave it hollow Im sure its there for bouancy "spelling" or structure support. From my knowledge when putting the floor back in you fiberglass almost everything back down anywhere water may get back in must be closed. how to do all this Im sure there is better directions than I can give already posted.
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extxlonghorn
Newbie Joined: January-21-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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i understand how to do it, either with or without the foam as either method is destinctly different. I guess I am looking to survey as many owners I can here who have done either one to see which seems to be the best.
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extxlonghorn
Newbie Joined: January-21-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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so.... those who are viewing this post, chime in please. To re-foam or not to re-foam, that is the question. Tis' noble'r ...
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ccskier16
Senior Member Joined: January-29-2004 Location: Hartland, WI Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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Put new foam in. It needs to be there.
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79skinautique
Groupie Joined: December-02-2005 Location: Gainesville, GA Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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When I did my 79 I was having the same problem that you are. Then I talked with a few guys that do this for a living and they said you wouldn't believe how loud the boat is inside without the foam, its stops vibration as well as the crashing wake sounds. If you seal the boat up well enough you don't have to worry about the foam getting wet again. I also talked with U.S. composites which is where I picked up the foam and they said this new foam is alot more water resistant than the old stuff.
Good Luck |
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Aaron
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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I am on the re-foam side of the aisle. I believe the foam has three usefull purposes:
1) Sound deadening. 2) Structural support against the hull oil canning. 3) Floatation in the event of mishap. If you are going to put plywood over the foam, then use the low density stuff (recommended by me). If you are going to fiberglass directly over the foam, then use high density foam (not recommended by me as this method requires a great deal of fiberglass matt/cloth and resin). If you go the foam route, do NOT try and place plywood or plastic over the foam as it expands, let it expand freely. If you try to keep it from expanding, it gets very dense and thus hard to shape, can bulge the bottom of the boat out and looses its bouyancy. The best method of trimming flat is to use grinders and long sanding blocks. Avoid the use of a saw as you will surely cut in a low spot. |
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Atmspltr
Senior Member Joined: May-04-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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Definetly foam...2 lb density if you plan to use plywood over the foam. I set the plywood and foamed underneath and allowed to foam to expand the the deck, then glassed in the topside. Check out US Composites...best price going. Work in small batches.
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64 Skier
Senior Member Joined: February-08-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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OK, I'll be the contrarian. My '64 did not have foam from the Factory. It has plywood floors with CC markings so I can assume it's "Original".
The '72 was water logged underneath the 3/4" plywood which was also soaked and was "heavy" to say the least. I removed every bit of it and laid down plywood with no foam. The '72 is no louder now than before. I think the vibration others feel/hear is due to the way you align the shaft but won't get into this here since we had a lengthy post on that a while back. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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What I was thinking of doing was a custom interior on the 81 hull I just got and making front and rear stands for the seats that I could hinge and use for storage and coolers, and do some trick things with the fiberglass for speakers and storage alone the sides and utilize some of the space below the deck to make the area's larger and doing a sandwich layup of the floors and seat bases, Kinda new meets old. I wasn't going to use the foam but maybe in some area's.
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91nautique
Senior Member Joined: May-26-2005 Status: Offline Points: 104 |
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Mine was saturated(wood and foam)and we opted not to refoam,it started out as a quik repair job and we eventially took the entire floor out ,front to back.What we found was poor quality glassing (from the factory)that was allowing moisture to sneak in from numerous unaccasable places.Something you may want to consider if you tear it all out, is the area forward of the skipole,it is a large void of wasted space that allowes water to slosh around,we rerouted cabling vents ect and now use the area for the battery comp,storage of tools,and an icebox that is accsesable from the drivers/observers seat. Also we installed drain plugs for each side(thru the transome)access plates into the deck for inspection and vents to allow for expansion/contraction. I was working alongside a qualified boat builder and the turnaround time from start to finish of the deck area alone was 12 solid days of nasty dirty work for both of us.The boat is no noisier as when it was full of waterlogged foam. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Well Jbear what do you thing about this?
If your exhust is too loud and your concidering mufflers for the boat, Then you need to buy a case of cold pop (aka BEER) and have someone tune that bad boy up so it puurrrs riding the glass, or turn your hearing aid down and shut the hell up so the rest of us can hear it. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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There are millions of boats out there without foam they are not unusably noisy. The hull in a correct craft is thick enough that it is not going to oil can without the foam, and all foam even the new stuff if exposed to water long enough will pick up some of the water.
I am not against anyone adding foam if they want it for safety or a little more solid sound as they go accross the water, but it can be done without it. I am not using it on my rebuild, or any wood either... |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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79: A boat to loud is like a girl to pretty or Beer to cold or a car to fast. It just ain't possible!!!
Always keep the hearing aid on the lowest setting anyhow. Keeps it cool and quiet around me at all times! Those kids on the school bus get kinda loud. john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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I recently finished foaming on the 72 SN and did so for these reasons.
1. I already have the boat ready (stingers open with no floor)and might as well do it. 2. If I ever hit something in the water that puts a hole in the hull...it will not sink! 3. insullation for sound...more solid feeling. My 2 cents worth...why not? |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Why
Safety Sound change Can be used for structure under fiberglass only floor Why not Cost Time & Labor Chance of future waterlogging/rot issues Choice depends on which combination of factors is most important to you |
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G Stonicher
Newbie Joined: December-23-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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I had the floor in my 20 ft Southwind totally taken out as it was soft in several places, and the foam was full of water. They did not put the foam back in, just used solid wood instead of plywood(like it was originally) for the floor stringers. It feels very solid and I don't hear any waves crashing on the hull. The boat is very quite.The guy that did mine put drain holes from each compartment so any water could drain to the center of the bilge. It stays dry everywhere.
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20' Southwind
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extxlonghorn
Newbie Joined: January-21-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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how many total cubic feet do you suppose i need to account for, should i re-foam.
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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If you have removed ALL foam..three 8 cubic ft foot kits...you won't use it all , 16 cf may not be enough...I barely got by with 16 cf , but I had to stuff some pool noodles under the bow area and faomed over them .
so...three kits or two plus noodles! |
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scott8370
Gold Member Joined: November-30-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 872 |
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How much would it cost to refoam a boat using only noodles?
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Scott
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5775 |
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Stangs at it again, first it was frog butt shaft seals now pool noodles. The mans a creative genius.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Well...I did steal the noodles idea from another member...I am going to stuff a bunch of them under the floor of the 62...it never had foam and never had stringer probs...it drys out becuase it's open. So...with the pool noodles it still sould dry out and I have floatation!
Scott...walmart has them for a buck and a half...so $30-$40...oh yeah..and they work great for shipping packing! |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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I could'nt resist....but
Pool noodles...."what ever floats your boat" Pun intended..... |
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scott8370
Gold Member Joined: November-30-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 872 |
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Of course I was kidding before..But now, I'm thinking..they could float a boat,and still have some air space around and through them.
You are a genius! |
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Scott
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G Stonicher
Newbie Joined: December-23-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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When the floor in my 20ft Southwind was redone last year with out foam,we did put noodles in the two compartments beside the engine. This was for flotation if needed.
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20' Southwind
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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And its not a bad place to store those noodles anyway... now you buggers are going to have me calculating how many noodles it takes to float a mustang...
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scott8370
Gold Member Joined: November-30-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 872 |
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I keep laughing....But I'm sure alot of noodles would float a boat. The word " Noddle" used by a bunch of grown men is just funny to me
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Scott
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Bob's2001
Senior Member Joined: March-28-2005 Location: Lake Jackson TX Status: Offline Points: 241 |
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Grown does not mean grown up.
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Bob Ed
83 2001 |
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