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Water in my Engine!

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leo0648 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-19-2007 at 1:47pm
I have a 1983 2001 Nautique with 1500 hours and the other day we found water in the oil. We checked the oil the day before, and no water. So it happened within the last trip. Also, we just changed the oil 2 weeks ago. There is a lot of water in the oil pan too.

My guess is a cracked head. What do you guys think? I plan on rebuilding the engine soon, but I want to fix it to last me till December.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene41097 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2007 at 4:39pm
For what little i know, sounds like cracked head or head gasket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2007 at 5:33pm
Cracked head or blown head gasket could certainly be the culprit but if it hasn't overheated recently I would suspect the riser gaskets. If you can see water/rust stains running down the outside of your exhaust manifolds then it's leaking on the inside too. Most water problems seem to come from exhaust manifold issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2007 at 5:49pm
I painted the manifolds this summer with new gaskets. I torqued them down to spec. I don't think that would be the case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2007 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

I painted the manifolds this summer with new gaskets. I torqued them down to spec. I don't think that would be the case.


Could be cracked or rusted from the inside. If not then do a compression test to see if the head gaskets are blown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2007 at 12:16am
Pull your spark plugs and see if you have any water in any of the cylinders. If not, it's not the exhaust manifolds. It could be an intake manifold though. Is yours aluminum? They corrode easier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2007 at 4:10am
Originally posted by nuttyskier2002 nuttyskier2002 wrote:

Pull your spark plugs and see if you have any water in any of the cylinders. If not, it's not the exhaust manifolds. It could be an intake manifold though. Is yours aluminum? They corrode easier.


please keep your dumb ass malibu comments to your self, your not helping out the guy at all. Aluminum Intake corrosion please. But then again I expect dumb sh*t from a jack ass like you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2007 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

I painted the manifolds this summer with new gaskets. I torqued them down to spec. I don't think that would be the case.

If there was rust there and you did not make absolutly positive they were square and flat,you are the culprit.Sometimes you can see the rust lines, mostly not.
A motor of this age will have an uneven srface and be almost impossible to seal, a remove and replace is in order. A good machine shop will surface the riser and the mating surface to like new for a few bucks.
Malibu dont think its the intake, read the above post as to the "I removed the manifolds to paint them" as a prelude to the water/oil issue.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2007 at 1:37am
The exhaust manifolds are pretty new. They said october of 96 on them. The engine has never been used in salt water. They were really clean when I put them on. Plus, we ran the eninge for about a hundred hours after the manifolds went back on. The intake manifold is cast iron, it is the stock pcm engine from 1983. I never took the intake manifold off, just the exhaust. Although it sounds like some think I took the intake off.


I pulled all the spark plugs and I didn't see any water. Also, I took the engine to a auto mechanic. He said all the plugs looked clean. He thought one was a little off, but he couldnt really tell. There were no signs of water though.

I drained all the fluids this weekend. Unfortunately I dont have time to touch the engine until Tuesday. I will run a compression test and have my friend look at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2007 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

Originally posted by nuttyskier2002 nuttyskier2002 wrote:

Pull your spark plugs and see if you have any water in any of the cylinders. If not, it's not the exhaust manifolds. It could be an intake manifold though. Is yours aluminum? They corrode easier.


please keep your dumb ass malibu comments to your self, your not helping out the guy at all. Aluminum Intake corrosion please. But then again I expect dumb sh*t from a jack ass like you.


Chris, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? Can't you deliver a post without cutting someone down or name calling? I'm going to explain how an intake can cause this problem. Pay attention and read very carefully. You might just learn something! There is a water passage that connects the two heads together that goes through the front of the intake. I have seen these corrode through near the flange that bolts to the head. This can happen on the underside of the manifold as well. Now, what is below the intake. That would be the valley of the block where there are drain holes for oil to get back to the pan. Now, I wasn't trying to tell this guy that the intake was his problem. I just mentioned it as a possibility. That's it!

If you had something to suggest that could be this man's problem, why didn't you offer it here? Oh, let me guess, you couldn't spell it. Too many of your posts read just like this one. You hammer people for their comments but you have little to offer in return that someone can actually use. 4023 posts of you calling members names and belittling them and using vulgar language has landed you the "Grand Poopah" status. You must be proud.
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 87BFN owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2007 at 7:51pm
Nutty, why did you say the Alum. intakes corrode easier?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2007 at 10:23pm
leo0648
   I've got water in the oil AGAIN myself.
R&Red the busted exhaust manifolds @ 239 hrs, ran on a fake-a-lake for a hour-clean, ran 5hrs.retorqued the exh.manifolds, changed oil-clean. Changed it @ 250-clean , changed it @ 275 perfect. At 279 I put a timing light on it, heard a knock pulled the dip stick the oil pan was FULL of an oil/water emulsion. So-WTF.The last time I ran the boat the water was glass 25-40 mph for an hour or more and it ran very,very well. Drained it,pulled the plugs put in 4qts.of dextron III & did a compression test-all 8 145-150 psi.I pulled the intake and found the oil emulsion under the intake at the water crossover at the front and back of the block.I inspected the intake gaskets but they were damaged removing the intake.I changed the intake gaskets, 5 qts 40 wt rotella and filter. CRAP !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 1:54am
So what should I check first? Exhaust manifold or intake manifold?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 10:10am
Ive seen the intake manifold crack right under the thermostat housing and will indeed fill the block
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 10:24am
leo0648
The PCM manual says the most common way to get water in the oil is a cracked exhaust manifold.
     Lets make a list of possibilities.

    1) Cracked exhaust manifold
    2) Cracked exhaust riser
    3) Exhaust riser gasket
    4) Cracked intake manifold
    5) Intake manifold gasket
    6) Cracked timing chain cover
    7) Timing chain cover gasket
    8) Cracked head
    9) Blown head gasket
   10) Cracked block
   11) Agree / Disagree ?
   12) What else ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 11:36am
Thats about right but I might change the order of the list depending on the recent history of the engine/ storage/overheats/etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nuttyskier2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by 87BFN owner 87BFN owner wrote:

Nutty, why did you say the Alum. intakes corrode easier?


It's a well known fact that aluminum corrodes at a faster rate than cast iron. Many manufacturers (other than boats) warn that their cooling systems contain aluminum parts and warn that you should use anti-freeze with corrosion inhibitors. If you look on any chart that rates metals according to their anodic (least noble) rating you will find aluminum (unless it contains silicon) is less noble than cast iron.

Now, don't get me wrong.....I'm not knocking using aluminum intakes. I have one myself that I will be putting on my Malibu. The fact just remains that when you mix aluminum parts with cast iron (or any other metal that is more noble) you must understand that you are inviting corrosion and it's something you must keep an eye on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 1:04pm
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Funny thing about pulling the intake the 2
"pockets" in the head between the intake runners where oil collects (351w) ( an oz or 2 ) that oil looked fresh from the can ?
Are you still looking for a ski pylon ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 2:10pm
Could be you only fill those two "pockets" with oil when you make an occasional abrupt or hard banking turn. I wouldnt read too much into thier state. Your compression now is still good? How much of a knock did you hear? Were those exhaust manifolds repaired or replaced with new? I hate these sudden water in the oil scenarios, reidp had one a while back and never updated us on what he found the problem to be maybe he has some input.

I have an intact ring and finger ski pylon now, plan to install it and a tower over the winter. Along with a bunch of other stuff, starting to think it might be time to pull the foam and stringers as well, I injected cpes in the stringers when I got it but the soft spot next to the battery box is getting dangerously close to my drivers seat mount. Frankly I would rather look for a water leak in the engine...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 2:36pm
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Reidp was in my drive way when I installed the new exhaust manifolds & risers. I did the compression test as I flushed the engine. The engine Knocked very little at idle , moved the throttle up to 1500 or so (at the dock) the knock went away , back down to idle it came back & I shut it off .- Found the oil pan full of water. Still need to restart it.
I think "the list of possibilities " would be good in the frequetly asked questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 2:43pm
Well on the positive side that knock could be low rpm damper noise from a misfiring cylinder from the water. Bearing/rod knocks usually dont go away with a little throttle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 8:07pm
Should I consider doing a complete rebuild? There are 1500 hours on the engine, and it seems like it is time. I dont want to spend more money searching for the problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeinNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2007 at 8:27pm
leo0648, first i would pressure test the manifolds and do compression test on the engine. They are pretty simple tests that should give you an idea of how to proceed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 1:32am
Originally posted by nuttyskier2002 nuttyskier2002 wrote:

Originally posted by 79nautique 79nautique wrote:

Originally posted by nuttyskier2002 nuttyskier2002 wrote:

Pull your spark plugs and see if you have any water in any of the cylinders. If not, it's not the exhaust manifolds. It could be an intake manifold though. Is yours aluminum? They corrode easier.


please keep your dumb ass malibu comments to your self, your not helping out the guy at all. Aluminum Intake corrosion please. But then again I expect dumb sh*t from a jack ass like you.


Chris, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? Can't you deliver a post without cutting someone down or name calling? I'm going to explain how an intake can cause this problem. Pay attention and read very carefully. You might just learn something! There is a water passage that connects the two heads together that goes through the front of the intake. I have seen these corrode through near the flange that bolts to the head. This can happen on the underside of the manifold as well. Now, what is below the intake. That would be the valley of the block where there are drain holes for oil to get back to the pan. Now, I wasn't trying to tell this guy that the intake was his problem. I just mentioned it as a possibility. That's it!

If you had something to suggest that could be this man's problem, why didn't you offer it here? Oh, let me guess, you couldn't spell it. Too many of your posts read just like this one. You hammer people for their comments but you have little to offer in return that someone can actually use. 4023 posts of you calling members names and belittling them and using vulgar language has landed you the "Grand Poopah" status. You must be proud.
   



I only hammer jack ass' like you, Start a Malibu site and offer your worthless banter there.

Yes Aluminum corrodes it also will oxidize instanly too, but you have to have special equipement to detect that too. Now that your scratching your head, what is rust? oxidized iron maybe? what's the time frame for that to start.

You offer nothing of value but tail chasing circles and wild goose escapaids and where do those go no where. Now if that aluminum intake as been on the boat for thirty years then it might corrode through but I really doubt it's been on the boat that long and pigs have a better chance of flying than your theroy's or help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 1:37am
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

Should I consider doing a complete rebuild? There are 1500 hours on the engine, and it seems like it is time. I dont want to spend more money searching for the problem.



Yes odds are it's the block and it wasn't winterized correctly. Remove the Exhaust manifolds and risers and pressure test them. Now if you don't know the easy way to check them let me know it's not hard and you don't need to buy anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 1:58am
How do I test them? Unfortunately I dont have access to many tools because I am at college. My friend has a lot of tools about an hour away, I guess that is my best solution. Do I need an air compressor?


Also, why would it be the block? The boat is stored down south and garaged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 3:56am
take them off, support the manifold/riser vertically have the hose that feeds the manifold higher than the top of the riser now slowly start pour water until it is full and leaks out where it should, now wait and check back every so often and look for water in the exhaust opening's where water shouldn't be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuffaloBFN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 9:00am
Originally posted by leo0648 leo0648 wrote:

Also, why would it be the block? The boat is stored down south and garaged.

How far down south? My first boat came from below atl and had the exact crack that Eric mentioned above(thermo housing). It had a telltale oil leak at the front of the intake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 10:09am
it is real thin in that area and the engine i did was winterized, somehow a little water sat right below the thermostat and must have froze and put about a 1/2 very small crack in the underneath of the intake, it happens, luckily the block had no damage, you are getting up in the hours and a head gasket would be a good suspect for the leak, also the exhaust manifolds as mentioned
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leo0648 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2007 at 6:34pm
The exhaust manifolds seem fairly new (0896 are the digits on them).

The boat has been in South Texas or South Louisiana for the past year and a half.
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