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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:00pm |
Thanks again- to get my motor in alignment do I need to loosen the other 4 bolts that are for the up and down adjustment? When I put the couplings back together do I just line up the bolt holes? The two halves didnt seperate on there own, but I did not have to pry them apart either- it was fairly easy Thank you
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:20am |
Bau, one sign of a MAB (mis aligned boat) is when you remove the bolts from the halves they seperate on thier own because of the MA, normally it is very tough to seperate the two halves and you have to pry them apart, if you get this straightend out you will be amazed on how different the boat will handle and feel,
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-21-2008 at 12:14am |
Ive been accused of self promotion, but, i would pull the trans and take a peek, that is classic example of a severely mis-aligned transmission and imagine what happens when you force the two halves together with the bolts with a wrench, you load the ass end of the transmission, one other thing a mis aligned boat will do is create a drag also when connected because it cocks the input shaft in the planetary bushings and it will drag.
the answer to your other question of should the trans drag? and with the prop shaft connected in nuetral it should not drag, with the shaft dis-connected as it is now you should be able to turn the output coupling of the transmission freely by hand, this lets you know that if it does turn that you do not have warped clutch plates. If it does not turn then you do have warpage.
I would seriously pull that trans and look at it, it may still be working but with the alignment issue from what i see and if it has been like that for a while it has been running hotter than normal causing the lathe cut rings to harden up.
the planetary is probably worn into the case and i bet the trans internally has a few issues
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 10:34pm |
Hey Guys (EriC), well I took the bolts out and the drive shaft spun easily and I accidently seperated the two, this didnt seem like any big deal- I pushed them back together and lined up the bolt holes and checked the gap. I could see an issue without the gauges- its way out- am I screwed already (Trany issues)? Then I loosened 8 motor mount bolts- Do I need to loosen the 4 big nuts on the arms to get the motor to move? My issue seems to be side to side-not up and down, but who knows. When its all loose where do you pry from, boat bottom (ouch)? One more really stupid question, when I put the boat in gear shouldn't the coupling on the trany side not spin? Sorry so many-tell your wife I'm sorry, I'm new to all of this questions
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gb842001
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 9:16pm |
Thanks again, I'm gonna go out and see where its at right now- I'll keep you all posted, thanks for the help!
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gb842001
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-24-2007
Location: Gainesville,GA
Status: Offline
Points: 6094
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 6:58pm |
You'll know when you have it right...it'll be smoooth!
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1988 BFN-sold"It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO
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phospher
Gold Member
Joined: July-19-2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 557
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 3:38pm |
yeah, this is a great post. thanks Eric!
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79nautique
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-27-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7872
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 1:30pm |
it's a good start getting it close on the trailer but the hull is supported diferently when on the trailer than it would be in water. So it can change a little and it is a very tight spec. so it needs to be double checked on the water.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 12:41pm |
Thanks- I am doing this on the Trailer-is that not good?
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gb842001
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 7:52am |
baumanmt wrote:
Sounds good- I take it when I take out the four bolts, I should be able to spin the shaft and coupling, and if so, do I need to have the coupling lined up with the trany in a certain spot to check the gap, or do I just line up the bolt holes? One more thing (for now) how will I know if the pressed on coupler is loose if the set screws are still tight? Thanks-GB |
The coupling halves have a pilot bore and shoulder to keep the concentricity. (Shaft centered to the the trans) You will at one point want to loosen the set screws to make sure the shaft and coupling are tight and not worn.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah
Joined: January-27-2004
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Posted: March-20-2008 at 12:11am |
it will still rock if it is bad as the screws haven't moved since they are safty wired and the coupling was pressed on when they where tightened and they'll ware too if the coupling as worn due to misalignment.
Also are you doing this in the water or on the trailer?
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 10:04pm |
Sounds good- I take it when I take out the four bolts, I should be able to spin the shaft and coupling, and if so, do I need to have the coupling lined up with the trany in a certain spot to check the gap, or do I just line up the bolt holes? One more thing (for now) how will I know if the pressed on coupler is loose if the set screws are still tight? Thanks-GB
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 3:59pm |
make sure though that it is a press fit, that is one of the first signs of mis-alignment is a loose coupling which has been working on the shaft
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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JoeinNY
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Joined: October-19-2005
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Points: 5693
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 2:50pm |
No dont loosen the set screws, the coupling needs to stay on the shaft and it should be pressed on... not loose at all.
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Bremsen
Senior Member
Joined: June-26-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 171
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 2:47pm |
Loosen the 4 bolts, not the set screws. Be sure that the coupling faces actually seperate.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-19-2008 at 2:41pm |
Hey Guys- I've yet to dive into allignment just yet, but it is coming up on my list, so here is a pic of my set-up. My question is- do I take out the 4 bolts plus loosen up the 2 set screws with the safety wire on them?
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gb842001
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 11:25pm |
Thanks Eric, the 3,9,6,12 o'clock does help, I was on the right page, I think I just worded it weird. Thanks again, when I tear in I'll post how it went. Thanks 842001
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
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Points: 13413
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 6:59pm |
overall on transmissions i see about 20 to 25% problems created from mis-alignment,
here are some of the problems caused:
1. horsepower loss, due to excessive load
2. excessive heat in the trans, from load
3. vibrations
4. case wear
5. major planetarty failure, with it goes many other hard parts inside the trans
6. it causes drum failure on the PCM transmissions, (hairline cracks)
7. breaks the oil down quicker due to the heat
8. more gas useage due to extra load
9. srut bearing wear
10. shaft wear
11. coupling wear
as you can see why this this should be included in your yearly ritual, preferably after winter lay-up, i always stress alignment and it will always be as important as changing your engine oil
mis-alignment is the equivalant to running your engine 2 qts low all summer long....
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13413
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 6:43pm |
shoot for zero all the way around, the spec is .003 or less on 2 parallel faces, this is what you are trying to achieve, it is a bit confusing and i do it all the time and expect everyone to jump in and understand it but sometimes i get ahead of myself because i do it all the time and think everyone should understand it.....try explaining it on the phone to someone...
if you did have .003 at the 3,6,9, and 12 o'clock position then that would be perfect because you've achieved .000 clearance...if that helps any.
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 4:18pm |
Thanks Pete(?) I think I'm on the same page,,,,,,,,,,so the gap can be what ever it is it just cant vary more than .003, I still feel that if it was not off by .003, that would be ideal, but is that asking for to much?
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gb842001
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 3:53pm |
baumanmt wrote:
Hey Eric, When I check this with the feeler gauge, do I want it to all be at .003, should it just be equal all the way around regardless of the gap |
Greg, I feel you have missed the basic idea of alignment. You want the engines crank shaft on the same centerline as the prop shaft. It's like your arm straight out and not bent at the elbow. When using the feller gauge between the coupling halves, you are checking to see if the faces are parallel or the crank shaft and prop shaft are on that same center line. The .003" is the max out of parallel you want the coupling faces. Don't worry, Eric can be confusing at times!!! At least you unbolted the coupling halves because there was a post the other day on another site that the boat owner was trying to get a .003 feeler between the halves without unbolting. Since he couldn't, he thought his alignment was good!
Hope I've helped, and welcome.
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-16-2008 at 2:59pm |
Hey Eric, When I check this with the feeler gauge, do I want it to all be at .003, should it just be equal all the way around regardless of the gap
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
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Posted: March-15-2008 at 12:40pm |
why thank you for the compliment on the topic, just trying to save you a trans rebuild, it could be costly. Eric
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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baumanmt
Senior Member
Joined: March-05-2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 105
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Posted: March-15-2008 at 3:56am |
Thanks guys, great post-I am a new CC owner and had no idea of this important issue. I will be checking my new 1984 SN 2001 before taking it to the lake. A 1700.00 repair would end my boating season pretty quickly. Thanks again-great pics
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gb842001
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
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Posted: August-06-2007 at 10:13am |
thats not imagination, it was loaded up and you removed the load, it makes alot of sense...its a great example of why alignment is so important
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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stang72
Platinum Member
Joined: July-31-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1608
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Posted: July-24-2007 at 11:49am |
Thought I would mention this to see if it makes sense!
Before getting the alignment right...I had a tad bit of an Idle issue when dropping it into gear...it would almost want to die unless I bumped the throttle up a bit (or have to set idle speed another 100 rpms up).I like to see 600 rpms when engaged. I figure there was enough resistance to effect it. It now it idles right where it sould with no stumble!!! Smooth as butter.
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stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! The Super Air
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stang72
Platinum Member
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Points: 1608
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Posted: July-11-2007 at 1:11pm |
It's been alive a long time and I won't mind keeping it for a while longer!
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stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! The Super Air
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah
Joined: August-13-2006
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Points: 13413
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Posted: July-11-2007 at 9:23am |
load = loss of horsepower and gas... you added years of life to that trans Stang
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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stang72
Platinum Member
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Posted: July-11-2007 at 1:42am |
Eric...great topic!
I had the engine out for a rear seal and figured I would clean and lube the the mounts.They were a bit tight due to rust...PB and a crow bar...now they side easily.
The prop now turns evenly with the one finger pull!
Thanks for the post!
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stang Face plants are not that funny when it's you face! The Super Air
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87BFN owner
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Posted: June-06-2007 at 5:40pm |
CC manual states in the check list section, that alignment should be checked once a year as Eric has said before.
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