Forums
NautiqueParts.comNautiqueSkins.com - Correct Craft Upholstery and Part
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - GT-40 EFI Engine sputtering, ECM relay or FCC???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

GT-40 EFI Engine sputtering, ECM relay or FCC???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page   12>
Author
wetskier2000 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-07-2005
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GT-40 EFI Engine sputtering, ECM relay or FCC???
    Posted: January-28-2013 at 6:16pm
BTW: The safety lanyard circuit seemed to allow the fuel pump to run a little. Maybe on crank, but not on RUN. That's one part that really screwed me up doing any diagnosis as we were floating towards the dam... It would seem to fire up then immediately die. I wasn't thinking lanyard at all. I was thinking ECM not sending correct signals to the fuel pump or something along those lines... Similar to cars where oil pressure is an input to the ECM and without oil pressure you get 3-5 seconds of fuel then a shutdown.


Oh, and it gets better... We finally get out the anchor to stop down river movement.... Guess what was the only thing out there to tow us in..... I was grateful, but talk about embarrassing..
Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

          1964 American Skier
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2013 at 12:46pm
So this might just be an issue with the safety tether?
Back to Top
Bakchose View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: November-04-2004
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 554
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bakchose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2013 at 11:38am
Originally posted by ricofrancois ricofrancois wrote:

The boat didn't start after running fine for a set. I noticed I couldn't hear the fuel pump anymore when turning the key. After checking a few things, I tried to play with the emergency circuit cut off switch and the fuel pump started again and the engine ran fine. I guess it could explain the whole intermittent cut of.


When you mentioned circuit I thought you were talking about the circuit breakers on the back of the engine. Sorry about that.
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2013 at 10:15pm
Bakchose, I don't think that we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about the safety lanyard switch that may be faulty. If there is a bad contact and the switch activates for half a second, the fuel pump will shut off for half a second and therefore explains the sputtering.

wetskier2000, you can come and ski anytime here but I can't say it's really warm! 55 air and 50 water.
I think the fuel smell occurs only once when the switch may have come off and back on a few time in a row,

I have the replacement hose anyway which I will replace when I change my fuel filter.

I will replace the safety lanyard and see if the problem reoccurs.

I am working on the manifolds right now. replacing gaskets and will have to gauge whether I can reuse the manifolds and risers for a few more years.

I am going to have bad dreams about safety lanyards and dams now :-)
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
wetskier2000 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-07-2005
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2013 at 12:03pm
I presume you mean the safety lanyard beside the driver's right arm... Sure for an intermittent cutout, I'd buy that theory if the switch was crappy. Also an issue when your are floating down river towards the dam and the boat won't start cuz *someone* knocked it off on a power turn (but I digress :-) )..

I'm less convinced that would cause a strong fuel smell and or stumbling at throttle up. Even idling back to the dock would not happen with the lanyard disengaged, the boat would not run at all. If I have the symptoms correct, they are exactly the scenario for the Fuel filter/water separator issue. Therefore, IMHO it seems you might have 2 problems. 1) A hinky lanyard switch and 2) The hose in the fuel filter.

I am completely jealous that you are skiing. Maybe I need a plane ticket to come help you diagnose it!!! :-)
Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

          1964 American Skier
Back to Top
Bakchose View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: November-04-2004
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 554
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bakchose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2013 at 12:03pm
To be more specific it was the low presure fuel pump. See my thread in Engine repair GT-40 injector breaker tripping. Last post was 8/13/12. I want to say the pump was $130.00 - $135.00.
Back to Top
Bakchose View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: November-04-2004
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 554
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bakchose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2013 at 11:54am
Looks like your fuel pump is going. I had this same issue this past summer. The boat ran fine. Parked it at the dock and shut it off. Came back a couple hours later and it wouldn't start. Found the tripped ciruit pushed it in and it started right up. Over the course of a couple of weeks it became more frequent until it started stalling while under way. It is very common problem with the GT-40s and it is easy to replace. I highly recommend a second set of hands to hold the pump. I fixed mine right at the dock.
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2013 at 4:38am
The boat didn't start after running fine for a set. I noticed I couldn't hear the fuel pump anymore when turning the key. After checking a few things, I tried to play with the emergency circuit cut off switch and the fuel pump started again and the engine ran fine. I guess it could explain the whole intermittent cut of.
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2013 at 10:46am
If the CEL light is not coming on with engine running then it will not be the SLOW circuit being activated causing the problem. Maybe you should have been more clear with the symptom description.

The first thing you need to verify is the fuel pressure at both idle (31 +or- 3 psi) and just ignition key on engine off (39 +or- 3 psi). You can also check your pressure at WOT or with the vacuum hose removed from fuel pressure regulator for max fuel pressure. The relays could be the problem but a fuel pressure gauge will help confirm. The computer will not store a code for low fuel pressure.
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2013 at 9:19pm
Hopefully this is it! The CEL only came on during engine off key on. However when the problem occurred it almost stalled the engine which I guess reproduce key on engine off for a second.

Anyway I will run the boat on sunday and see if it's a definitive fix.

Now I am worried about changing the riser gaskets and finding a decomposing manifold. The boat was only ever on fresh water, so hopefully it should be okay.
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
wetskier2000 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-07-2005
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2013 at 11:50am
Sounds good so far...

Yes, the relays.. I keep a spare in the boat...

Do you have a CEL when the engine is running? If it's only on with key on, engine off, isn't that normal?

Finally did my manifold leaking repair this year also...

I wish I was skiing but it's 16 degrees here right now...
Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

          1964 American Skier
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2013 at 1:34am
ok so I took the boat out today.

still waiting for my service parts that include the fuel filter with o ring and fuel pump hose.

Anyway I went out and tried to read an error code with my code reader but couldn't get it to work.

I decided to change my ECM and FUEL PUMP relays as this came up as a common fix and the boat worked fine all day. The issue never occurred.

I don't think I feel this is a definite fix but it's looking good so far.

Only problem is while we were running the boat without the engine cover, we noticed that the manifold were leaking a bit... starting new thread!
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
8122pbrainard View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-14-2006
Location: Three Lakes Wi.
Status: Offline
Points: 41040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by wetskier2000 wetskier2000 wrote:

Here's a write up of another member with the same issue...

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21983&title=pcm-gt40-backfires


For the convenience of all, here's a proper link


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 4:52pm
Yes I just ordered my service parts but it shipped already.

I think the hose is part number R035098B and costs $4

I will see if I can find it locally, so I don't have to wait!
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
Bri892001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: September-27-2008
Location: Boston MA
Status: Offline
Points: 4947
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 4:48pm
Keep Wetskier2000's suggestion in mind too. Considering how frequently that little tube fails, and how relatively cheap it is to fix, it's worth checking, even if it's just to cross off and move to the next suggestion.
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 4:37pm
Thanks Lewy2001!
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
wetskier2000 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-07-2005
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 4:27pm
Here's a write up of another member with the same issue...

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21983&title=pcm-gt40-backfires

Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

          1964 American Skier
Back to Top
wetskier2000 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-07-2005
Location: New Hampshire
Status: Offline
Points: 367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetskier2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2013 at 3:49pm
Fuel filter and the small hose in there cracking? (Theres a fix kit for it) I had similar symptoms on my 1997 GT-40 and this seemed to be the permanent fix.
Current: 1997 Nautique

Previous: 1987 Nautique

          1964 American Skier
Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2013 at 8:09pm
Eric, these switches are additional to the gauge senders with the oil SLOW switch you can see the gauge sensor clearly right next to the SLOW switch. The temp slow switch is in the top of the inlet manifold mine is a bit more obvious as I have a "T" and 45 degree elbow in original inlet manifold location for a heater. The temp gauge sensor is in the circulation water pump.

OIL SLOW SWITCH


TEMP SLOW SWITCH
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2013 at 1:29pm
The CEL came on but I think it's more because the engine stalled. The light is on whenever the key is turn with engine off.

Lewy2001 if you have the pics of where the oil switches are, that would be great!

I will plug a fault reader next time as well.
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2013 at 8:35am
Is the engine check light still on as stated previously? If so you are getting way of track.
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2013 at 4:23am
Hi

I took the boat out for a test drive, unfortunately the fuel pressure gauge I had didn't fit. I will have to get one for a smaller valve. Anyone know what gauge fits? Is it just ford?

The service manual I have downloaded from Planet Nautique is for the old GT40 with high pressure pump at the back.

Anyway, I ran the boat (temp 45). Started perfect with a bit of a loping at idle which is normally only in the summer.

I ran a few passes including WOT over 40mph and everything ran fine. Water temp and oil pressure looked perfect.

I let the boat rest for an hour and ran another few passes in the course at 34mph. 1st pass fine, second pass the GT40 sputtered at the end of the course, I put the throttle in neutral and the engine stalled. Again water temp was on 150 and oil pressure steady just above 40.

I started the engine and cruised back to the dock at 30mph with engine sounding fine.

I checked the oil pressure switch and connections and it seemed fine.

I always leave the tank full and use the boat at least every other week. I will try dry gas anyway.

I will replace the fuel filter next week end, but someone mentioned a clear hose that could be cracked in the FCC, do you have a part number?

I will also get the relays R130011 at NAPA. Are they exactly the same as NAPA AR174?

Thanks for your help again!

Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2013 at 3:03am
It is inside the FCC.
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2013 at 5:36pm
Anyone knows where the high pressure pump is?
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
bhectus View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: July-04-2010
Location: Gator Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 1809
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhectus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2013 at 1:25pm
I was going to suggest oil pressure switch or wiring issue yesterday but decided to keep my mouth shut as I'm not too engine-savvy but my '96 did the same exact thing after Woody put the new GT-40 heads on it a couple years ago. First water test after the new heads were on I backed it off the trailer and idled out, ran great. As soon as I got into it it did exactly what the OP described. Turned out a loose connection to the pressure switch.
'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold
'97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon
'97 Ski Nautique
'83 SN 2001
Back to Top
M3Fan View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: October-22-2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M3Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2013 at 11:51am
+1 on what Lewy said.
2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI
https://forum.fifteenoff.com




Back to Top
lewy2001 View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: March-19-2008
Location: NSW Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2013 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by ricofrancois ricofrancois wrote:

This time I notice that the "check engine light" came on for 1 sec while the boat choked.


This is the critical bit of information you have either a faulty SLOW (limp) mode oil pressure switch or the faulty SLOW mode temp switch. These switches are additional to the senders for the temp and oil pressure gauges. There is also the possibility of a SLOW circuit wiring problem.



You can test this by just disconnecting the wire from both of these SLOW switches.

Is the engine running at normal temps 160 ish?

I have some pictures of the location of these SLOW switches that I will post when I get on the right computer.
If you're going through hell, keep going

89 Ski

<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta
Back to Top
ricofrancois View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: January-11-2013
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricofrancois Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2013 at 7:35pm
I told to a boat mechanic and he told that what I am describing is likely fuel related. Maybe a fuel pump about to die. I ordered an ECM Relay anyway and will try that as inexpensive enough.
Ski Nautique 97 - GT40 EFI
Back to Top
GlassSeeker View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-26-2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA.
Status: Offline
Points: 2421
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2013 at 7:17pm
I would check over electric connections make sure all are clean and tight.
This is the life
Back to Top
GlassSeeker View Drop Down
Grand Poobah
Grand Poobah
Avatar

Joined: November-26-2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA.
Status: Offline
Points: 2421
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlassSeeker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2013 at 7:14pm
cold manifolds is not a problem
This is the life
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page   12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright 2024 | Bagley Productions, LLC