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Fuel additive for ’60 inboard?

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koneill View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-06-2007 at 3:21pm
I purchased a 1960 Atom over the winter. I've heard reports that it can be a good idea to use a gasoline additive in older engines. Does anyone have an recommendations on weather or not to use one, and if so which?

Thanks,
Keith
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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 3:40pm
usually it a lead additive for the valves, but if the engine has been re-built then you really don't need too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 5:32pm
Koneill,The lead additive is a great idea,does not matter about the motor being rebuilt,the lead is there for the valves.
You did not say what motor you have.If the head was reworked with Stellite seats and premium guides, they possibly installed sodium valves as well, these mods would allow you to run unleaded with no valve train issues. If you are not sure run the stuff, cheap insurance..........boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 6:54pm
Yes if the motor was rebuilt in the seventies then you might have issues, but if it was done within the last twenty years then it's not an issue or if the guy half assed it and didn't do the heads then ya you would have an issue.

This is not the first time this topic has came up on this site and it's the same BS scaring them into thinking they should do this and that when they don't oh well

do a search of the topic and I believe you will fine a very good reference manual or source that clearly states there isn't a need to use the crap, besides the lead by-product isn't very enviromentally friendly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 7:54pm
koneill, not really a question of half assed or a less than premium job. Bottom line it costs extra dollars to bring an leaded head up to no lead standards. This is done with machine work and the addition of Stellite seats,not just grinding the existing head surface,also the addition of sodium filled valves. All this costs extra, and most people won't pay to do the job correctly.
I stand by my advice to run the substitute,there is no tetra ethel lead in these products,but they seem to stop the "mushroom valve syndrone" still cheap insurance...........boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 8:16pm
Koneill, There is no real substitute for lead so I would just use the boat and save your money. If a top end job wasn't done with all the good components then put them in when it's time to rebuild. The extra cost of the premium parts will come from all the money you've saved from buying the junk.


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Riley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 8:36pm
Isn't it less of an issue if you're not hammering on it, and why would anyone be hammering on an old Atom Skier?
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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 9:19pm
oooppps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-06-2007 at 9:22pm
Well to me if the person doing the cylinder head rebuild isn't replaceing the valve seats, valve guides, valve guide seals, valves, springs and retainers then they really aren't doing anything other than cleaning them up replacing one or two burnt valves and sending you on your way and they charge you 400 bucks or so for two maybe three hours of work and 20-50 bucks in parts?

That isn't a machine shop I want working on my parts or touching my customers engines. To me it's half ass work to some other guy it's fine. You get what you pay for and it's really a bargain when you have to do it twice now isn't it?

When if you would have spent a couple hundred more to have it done right so it last four times as long the first time? you do the math it's your money not mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2007 at 5:54am
Koneill, Mr. Gordon H. Millar, P.E. writes the feature article called the "Inboard Engineer" for Classic Boating magazine. Awhile back he devoted his whole feature (3pages) to the lead additives and just slammed it as being a real joke on the public. He went into the physics of engine construction differences as well as what the lead or lack of does. The lead was added to gas as a octane booster and not a lubricant. It was a interesting article that I would be happy to dig out, scan and email to you if you want more info. 79's idea of doing a search on the subject is good to but be carefull because you will read allot of "advertising". I have a 54 Atom, a 64 Dunphy and a 77 Tique and have never used the stuff. The 64 has never been touched mechanically, has about 2000 hrs. on it and still runs great with compression within the good range as well as no oil burning.(about 1 qt. per summer) The 54 and 77 were rebuilt but with all the "good stuff". I'm a active ACBS member and would say 90% of us are of the opinion that the lead substitute is a scam. The oil companies get enough of our money. Save it for when you need the rebuild as the stuff will not save it from the inevitable.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koneill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2007 at 10:18am
Wow, I had no idea that there were such divergent views on the subject. Thanks for the info.

The engine is a Gray Marine 70 with about 150 hours on it. The guy I bought the boat from said he had it serviced in 2000. I took that to mean that he had it tuned up rather than rebuilt. With the low hours and the fact that the plugs look to be original it's my guess that it may have never been rebuilt. (The starter does look new.)

Am I correct in my understanding that using an additive shouldn't do any harm? If that's the case then I will probably use one if for no other reason than it is 50 years old and I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks again,
Keith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-07-2007 at 1:33pm
Koneill, You really don't have anything to worry about. The Gray 4-70 is build up (marinized) from the Continental industrial block. They were desiged for and used for lots of steady continuous work loads. The marinized version is actually de-tuned and listed at 70 HP at 3400 RPM so that really isn't pushing the engine. All the old engines were built to run on white gas which is straight run gas with no addatives at all including lead. It wasn't untill the early 60's that allot of marinas even started offering leaded gas at the gas piers. You can use the lead substitute without any harm but I really think you're just wasting money.


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