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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Yep same same, and I even went out and got a Standard brand coil at a 1.5 ohm and still no good.
Start your boat and check your volts at the negative and the positive and I bet you have 12V on both sides instead of 12 on the positive and 9 on the negative. Then put your resistor back in the circuit like it was and take your purple wire from the EI off the positive side of the coil and extend it back to the resistor and hook it to the voltage in side. Now start the boat again and read the voltage on the + and - side of the coil. You should now have 12V on the positive side and 8 - 9 volts on the negative side. You may have to go back to your original coil if it was less than 3.0 ohms although the directions say replace if over 3.5 ohms. Look on the box and see if it Says you have to use an external resistor with the new coils. |
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84 funboat
Newbie Joined: August-30-2008 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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I threw away my original coil - now I wish I had it back to try!
Oh well - these two others seem to be almost twinkies - just with different colors and markings. Both read 3 ohms across. Not sure of the original brand, as they must of been re-boxed by skidim. Heading to the lake later today and will try the rewire and test that. I'll test the voltage as you mentioned, but that is not generally how to test it. The type of voltage meter (digital vs. analogue) might yield different reading on the - side as I believe that is a pulsing voltage from the breakerless ignition module to trigger the coil. My meter is a pure digital, what style is yours? |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Mine is digital.
I took the negitive side of the meter down to the ground cable where it attaches to the motor at the right front. Then just touched both sides and got 12 on the + side and 8.5 or 8.8 on the negitive. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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I understand how you wired it- I just cant figure out why. I have never heard of any EI set up requiring different voltages at the module and coil. It should be all or nothing going through the resistor. Like I said, you got very creative with your wiring and Im not sure why (or if) your boat is running properly. I would not suggest anyone else implement this same fix unless it is specifically recommended by the EI manufacturer. I do not believe Prestolite (PCM), Pertronix, or Mallory use this technique. |
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ltmoeller
Newbie Joined: July-01-2008 Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I recently purchased a prestolite ing from skidim with the coil that they suggested and bypassed the ballest resister and the boat(1989)351 runs like crap.So what is in simple terms the correct way to wire this set up.I had a pertronix in the boat for 7 years and used the ballast resister and never had a problem but a part broke in that system and I was talked in to purchasing the other unit skidin sells for 149.00 plus the coil.The tech line at pertronix said to use the ballast resister and continue using to points coil and like I said it was trouble free for 7 years.Now this other unit they sold me is just not working.
Tom |
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randall
Senior Member Joined: July-30-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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I have always been lured to the Electronic Ignition change over kit. Why? "Just because" I guess.
But, 7 summers of 100% reliability (1973 CC Mustang) is making me stay with my points. I was thinking of getting the EI conversion this winter. No way, if SKIDIM can't nail this down for all late model configurations. Any hassle isn't worth it. I will just order a point tuneup package from SKIDIM. The boat has a awesome reputation of reliability with friends, family, and lake neighbors. All the new boats at the lake were having problems this summer...but not me! My extended family just can't understand how a boat this old performs so well... |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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It's a Correct Craft...'nuff said. john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I'm with you Randall - I'm sticking with points. I like to tinker with our boat anyway so the tuneup time is not work to me. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Randall, You mentioned "lured" into a conversion. That's really a good term that I feel lots have fallen into. I think the manufacturers of these conversions have marketed them to the point that they are luring! People have reported better starting with them but, is this because they really needed at tune up?? Other gains are questionable with just the conversions. Gains have been reported with the complete EI system but that's a different story. I'm a points person too. I just mentioned it in another thread that my 64 hasn't needed points in about 28 years (over 500 hours). I did a complete tune up when I bought it and it's run strong all those years. If you're out in the middle of the lake with a conversion and it goes then you're stuck. (Unless you're like Tim (TRBenj) who carries spare modulals in his boat) With points at least you can clean them up and usually limp in. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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maybe you should have checked and changed the timing after you installed the new unit so the engine runs right and you can adjust the carb? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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Pete, I only carry one because a cheapo HEI module for my DUI costs $15! Both my Tique and Skier got new points this year- and they start and run beautifully. Unless I decide to throw some big power at them (which might include a new electronic distributor upgrade), I'll continue running points in them. |
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randall
Senior Member Joined: July-30-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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If the boat is running good, what do I need as far as preventive maintenance and tuneup? It had new points when I bought it (June 2001) and nothing has been touched since.
I have changed the oil, filter, and fuel filter regularly. Never changed water impeller (seems to move water strong, it keeps perfect 138 temp) The only thing I have noticed is it has to turn over 2-4 seconds sometimes when restarted when it has been ran and totally HOT. I want it to start with one touch of the key when it is hot. It idles and runs great at all speeds. Maybe it doesn't need anything.... Do many people pay up for the full EL distributor change ($350-$400)??? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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well you need to check the dwell and timing yearly beginning of the season works well, adjust the carb idle mixture screws and idle, using a vacuum gauge works best. Inspect and replace as needed for the cap and rotor, Look for carbon tracks or build up on the terminals inside of the cab and on rotor, burnt or stress marks, rounded corners on the rotor tip is what you are looking for and if you find it replace it. I all ways installed new plugss each year, and if you don't have a quality set of wires or they look really old get a new set.
But I would say that the carb needs tuned a little and the 138 is a shade to low like the t-stat is not working or missing all together. But you might be needing to rebuild the carb in the near future to get it to be turn key everytime, but a good tune-up might be all that's needed but address the temp issue first something isn't right witht he 138 reading should be 160-180 all of the time. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I see Chris answered your other questions but missed this one. It's my opinion that the complete change to a electronic distributor is great with other engine mods such as heads, cam and manifolds. Lots here have done it and there are plenty of threads on it. Also want to warn you that there are some very strong opinions on the brand you buy - Correct Chris?? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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First of all, beautiful orange Mustang!
I agree that 138 is a touch low, my PCM's and Conquerer all run in the 160 range with the 143 stat. Which marine conversion package do you have? Also agree on '79's other points- set the timing and dwell, replace the plugs, etc.
Chris, I assume youre referring to the curb idle adjustment? I generally try to avoid touching it, but have done so if I cant get the idle right where I want it with the mixture screws. Ive never used a vaccuum gauge- Im curious, whats the best procedure when using one? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Timmy timmy timmy, you use the idle mixture screw to control the idle bad bad you need a lesson young one. but what you want to do is get the dwell set, set the timing with the idle at 600-750, if it won't idle this low then your idle mixture screws are way off and/or timing and you will have to adjust it in stages until the idle is correct. But once you have the dist set correctly you can move on to the carb, unhook the PCV hose at the spacer plate and attach the rubber hose from the vacuum gauge, now you need to keep track of where the screws are oriented prior to turning so you know how much you have turned it, but you need to adjust both sides equall amounts or close to it, but with the gauge hooked up adjust the screws until you get the highest vacuum reading on the gauge leaving the screws a little on the rich side 1/16-1/8 of a turn CCW, once you have that then you can fine tune the base idle to 650 in gear and go your merry way. also you may need to adjust the choke a little as well or replace the choke stat depending on it's condition. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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Ha, thanks for the description of the process- its actually nearly spot on what Ive usually done, but now I wont second guess myself. I should pick up a vaccuum gauge, but Im curious- will max vaccuum occur at the max idle RPM you can achieve by adjusting the mixture screws? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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little confused what exactly you are asking but you will get the maximum vacuum reading at base idle, once you start to move the throttle vacuum will decrease untill there is no load, which never happens on a boat but backing off the throttle is about as close as you get and the vacuum will start to increase again. Basicly leave the gauge hooked up and run it and watch the guage fluctuate, as you increase the throttle it drops and then as soon as you start to back off it will increase and back and forth depending on throttle position. On a car once you get it rolling it takes much less power to keep it going but you will still never see more vacuum than you do at idle. Might be cruising 55 and only be a lbs or two less vacuum than it was at idle, basicly this is how the instant MPG works and one of the things the ECU looks at to determind what it is. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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I dont have a vaccuum gauge yet- so Im asking what the best way to set the idle is without one. In the past, Ive set the idle mixture screws to achieve maximum RPM at idle, then adjusted the curb (either up or down) so that it idles at ~650 in gear. Just curious if that was the correct method. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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sounds like that would get you on the lean side doing it that way and your going to have such a wide range on the screws where the RPM would not change. It's hard to explain what to do as it's more of a listen/feel thing aquired over years of experience to get it right, much easier to explain for an edlebrock or Q-jet carb vs a holley. But on those you crank them in slowly until the RPM drops then back it off a 1/4 turn. But once you have the carb set correctly you will be able to kill four Cyl 1-4 then 5-8 and it will still run and not die then you know you have it right. |
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randall
Senior Member Joined: July-30-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Thanks for the advice. And thanks for the boat compliment.
OK..so change cap and rotor more often then points and condensor. I have the 143 thermostate from SKIDIM. Maybe I was exagerating on the 138. It holds dead on ~140~ on the guage. I don't think it is faulty because I am remember testing it in a pot of water on the stove before putting it in. I guess it could be stuck open in there. But, it gives a very solid 140 "floor". I have a good set plug wires. I will have to post a picture of the engine. It is beautiful. It is a Waukesha marinize..says Clinton IOWA plant. Forgive my lack of technical knowledge...what is "dwell". Also, I see ford 302 1971-1974 spark plugs listed in SKIDIM. 18mm?? Is that me or not? http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP030001 My #1 mechanic checked it out when I bought it. He is hard to get a hold of. I will pin him down this winter. I hope to make the "feature correct craft" cover of this website one day. I need to get the "just right" pictures sometime. THANKS guys. Keep the suggestions coming. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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dwell is the point gap basicly or the angle that it is opened, Billy straighten me out please,
but you need to set it first using a feeller gauge get's you close and you get lucky sometimes too, but it needs set first then the timing as the dwell will change the timing setting. also You don't have to replace the cap more often just check it year and replace as needed, you can go several season's without changing it depending on the conditions it used and stored and the quality of parts used. also have you replace the sending unit or the temp gauge at some time? because if you haven't then something is stuck or wrong as the temp needs to be higher, you will get better performance and fuel ecconomy and you plugs won't foul either. So I'm guessing the gauge or sending unit has been swapped with an automotive unit with a diferent resistance value or the t-stat is open all of the time. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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Correct- dwell is the duration that the points are closed (touching). Stock setting should be set for 24-29 degrees. The best way to check is with a dwell meter. An alternative method is to check set the gap between the points when open- but this is only done in order to get the desired dwell, so its the second best method. Like Chris said, set dwell, then timing, then dial in the idle with the carb. As far as plugs go, that depends on which heads you have. I think the 302 changed somewhere in the 71-72 range from the larger 45mm plugs to the smaller 18mm plugs. Check to see which you have to confirm. If theyre the larger ones, use Autolite 45's, if theyre the smaller ones, use Autolite 24's. You can get those locally from any Autoparts store or Walmart. |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Tim, I do not remember going to the autoparts store in the 70s and asking for "mm" plugs. What happened to SAE ?? |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21129 |
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Roger, I have no idea. To be honest, I think I got those "mm" sizes wrong- and Im not even sure what they refer to. I can tell you that my '71 takes the larger plugs (13/16" wrench) and the '78 takes the smaller (5/8") ones. |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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Now those numbers I can understand... |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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non-resistor plugs large old style, resistor style smaller newer plugs? well around 71-72 they where new.
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