62 Classic needs a new Velvet Drive |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Posted: June-01-2016 at 4:10pm |
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Those two things are foreign to me but I'm guessing you're right then....just needs more run time! |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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Great advise boys if I had a Morse! I have a column shift and foot throttle on the Classic.
She idles at 650 RPM, nice and smooth with out the tic-tic-tic of the worn out damper. I'm sure it just because the trans is new and the friction bits are still tight. I"ll keep an ear tuned to it to see if it lessens during the summer. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve,
Great news. Regarding the "thud", if it's shifting into reverse after the throttle is starting to rev the engine, then it is a linkage adjustment. If it shifts into reverse first and then the revs increase, then it's just new. or the idle RPM is high. What is the engine idling at? |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Nice work! Now lets see some pics!
The "thud" should be an adjustment in the linkage at the transmission shifter. Basically, the trans is engaging too fast thus slamming into gear. |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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The Classic was reassembled this weekend with the new trans from SkiDim, rebuilt damper, freshly tuned prop installed, new trans cooler, water tested, aligned to 0.002" and run for about 6 hours. The old one must have been slipping quite a bit the last year or so. With the new trans, the boat really hooks up well and is very smooth. My preferred cruising RPM (just enough to be on plane and bring the bow down to see over it) dropped from 2600 to about 2300. The nasty burning smell of trans fluid is now gone and the bilge remains nice and clean. In the end, I'm a very happy camper.
One difference I noticed is when shifting into reverse with the new trans, it seems more "sudden" with a noticeable "thud". Is this a characteristic of a newer velvet drive design or just a brand new tight velvet drive? Not worried just curious. Thanks to all that helped me sort out this riddle. She should be good to go for several more decades. |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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Good point Tim. I dealt with a local shop who sent it out to a place in Missouri. I think I figured out where it went but they may not deal directly with consumers.
Local shop: http://www.abcgparts.com/ Rebuilder: http://www.uniqueclutches.com/ |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve,
Fantastic you found the place on the damper rebuild. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Sweet. Might want to post the info on the damper rebuild shop in case others need those services?
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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I was able to solve the hardest riddle of this endeavor. I found a place that could rebuild my damper plate. $150 with a 4 day turn-around time was pretty sweet considering I was stuck and had no other options. The rivets and spacer are new and look exactly like what was taken off. They cleaned it up and it looks great.
Trans from SkiDim should be here on Friday. |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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I am aware. I purchased a new cooler from FMT. I had to give the guy some business after all the time he spent on my project.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Steve did Skidim tell you that you need a new cooler to have the warranty in effect?
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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As far as the damper, all feelers for a new or NOS part came up empty. There just are no replacement options for the deep splined hub.
Upon closer inspection, the hard parts of the damper look to be in good shape. Only the springs needed to be replaced. I found a truck parts refurbisher in town who sent it out to have new springs installed. $150 later, my problem should be solved. All parts should be arriving next week. If everything goes smoothly, the Classic will be ready to roar long before the water temp becomes inviting. |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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So a plan has been formulated and put into action.
Several CCFers have offered assistance with my dilemmas. A sincere thank you goes out for your concern and generosity. In the end, a new transmission is making its way from SkiDim to my home. My core could not be rebuilt. Even with a different core, the cost of rebuilding by Federal Marine Transmission is within a few hundred of a brand new unit with a 1 year warrantee. My conclusion is FMT is good and very experienced but pretty pricey. If my original transmission could have been overhauled, I would have used him to do the job. But since I was replacing with a later version of velvet drive as a core anyhow, new started to make more sense. |
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70CC
Senior Member Joined: June-12-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 338 |
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Hi Steve,
If you just need a velvet drive, I have spares, 71B and 71C, early to mid 60's vintage. I sent you a PM with more info. -Phil |
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93/70 ccpb
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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gray 327 aft bellhousing and velvet drive trans.whole engine but is stuck. call me 330-524-6983
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what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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Dan, is this a Gray Marine Fireball 327 engine with a flywheel aft mounted velvet drive? |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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Tom, I understand your confusion as I had the same question. The distance from the tip of the splined input shaft to the face of the transmission mounting surface is the same. The input shaft mounting plate is different and consumes the additional input shaft length.
The net net is the length of the exposed shaft is the same. Also, this is why a new velvet drive is a direct replacement for a very old one. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
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pardon, don't yet understand the scenario...
If your replacement trans will likely not have the short input shaft, Why the bother to retain a deep hub dampner til you are certain it it needed with the longer iinput shaft of the new trans? |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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93/70 ccpb
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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hello raindog i have a complete engine and trans from a 62 or 63 correct craft classic all part are there but engine is stuck..it has been in dry storege for 5 yrs in my garage..750.00 call me if interested.dan 330-524-6983.ill try to get some numbars off it for you.engine block/trans
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what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Get a bigger hammer |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Looks like a "Solid Rivet" is what you need. Just figure out the diameter, length, and head shape you need. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Duane, Notice the "cheese head" that's formed on the rivet. I feel they do not what any movement between the plates so they really beefed up the head. They really wacked those rivets!! |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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Duane, if you have a moment, could you please link to the correct page at McMaster Carr for the rivets you've used (or just a part number would be fine).
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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I get mine from McMaster Carr edit: I don't see why you could not just use a punch and a hammer. You only have 4 to do. Perhaps a concave punch. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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So Pete, do you have any sources for the rivets? Are they a special type with a special name to them?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Got it! Yup, ether way, it's got to come apart.
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RainDog
Platinum Member Joined: February-21-2007 Location: Mke/Grn Lake WI Status: Offline Points: 1387 |
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The width of the slot in the backing plate and the top plate is smaller than the width of the spring. This keeps the springs from falling out. I can't see a way to compress the width of the spring to remove it through the top or bottom slots. As far as I can see, disassembly is the only option.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Be careful with ebasicpower Steve. I suspect they do a lot of drop shipping. If they could provide you with a spec drawing that would be great. I ordered PCM Ford cooling parts from them knowing they were discontinued even though they showed them available. Took a month to get my account credited after they found out they were NLA
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Steve,
A hydraulic press will work but the top and bottom staking tooling may be a problem. Notice the dimple in the middle? That's there to get some expansion to the ID's of the plates. Let's go back to the replacing of the springs only. I can't fully see how they are retained. Does it look like the plates would need to be taken apart for removal? Or,could the R&R of the springs be done simply by compressing them? |
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