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Luchog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GT40 experts required
    Posted: January-19-2016 at 8:18am
I've been experiencing an issue with my GT40 (20 annyversay) in a no CC boat for the last few months.
After a really great running summer, I stored the boat for 2 months on winter, as soon as I started this season it developed a slight miss or hiccup, more noticeable at planning speeds, as a random cylinder didnt fire. sometimes it was really rough and for some running periods it was barely noticeable or did not occur. Some days boat started great and started missing after a 10 minute period run.

My first thought was a fuel issue, so I drained the FCC, changed the filter, cleaned checked the LPF screen.
Checked fuel pressure, 35psi at idle, noticed a quick drop to 0 after shutdown, so I replaced the FPR. pressure now drops slowly to 10psi, but issue still present.
Also gave the injectors a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner, replaced all orings.
Also started using premium grade fuel, and draining the FCC on each outing to eliminate any alcohol/water.
No antisiphon valve is installed.

Also thought after some months of storage in a closed humid enviroment such as the motor box, I thought on moisture affecting the electrical/ignition, so I did thew following:
Checked on cap and rotor, no visible cracks or corrosion on posts.
Switched the FP and ECA relays, made no difference.
Checked spark plugs, all 8 are more carbon coloured than tan, (boat's a bit overpropped)
Sprayed contact cleaner on ignition, ECA and sensor connectors.
Also ran the boat without the tach to discard it messing the ignition.
Ran the boat with both the oil pressure and temperature switches disconnected.

Last time out, boat was really low on power, So I checked compression and all soldiers are in great shape at 150psi, but i'm still clueless on what to try next.

Situation being a scanner is locally unavailable, and parts are really hard to get by, I 'd appreciate to get some advise and guidance on what to check or test next..
thanks in advance.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 11:50am
I would suspect spark plug wires. I think there is a way to check them with ohm meter, might want to google that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 12:03pm
I am as far from an expert as the moon. I had one acting similarly a few years back. It ended up being a loose wire on one of the fuel injectors. Where the wire went into the plastic snap connector fitting(cant think of the term) it was not seated all the way. Once in a while it would lose connectivity and sputter. It acted like a "short". I do remember it was absolute luck that we found it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I would suspect spark plug wires. I think there is a way to check them with ohm meter, might want to google that.

Chris is correct but you want to use a mega ohm meter. The difference is it sends high voltage through the wires. It will also detect if there's any spots in the insulation where the power is shunting to ground such as a wire bracket/holder. Even though I'm always preaching testing first, in this case, it's probably just as easy to put a new set on.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 2:44pm
gee a cap and rotor sure is cheap and they do go bad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 3:50pm
Are the Cap and Rotor on a GT-40 the same as the Automotive counterpart?? Could make it way easier/cheaper for him finding parts.
On my Excalibur they are the same - not marine specific
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 7:25pm
Luch plugs, wires, cap & rotor would be my first move.

They are standard Ford automotive parts on the GT40.

There is a after market scanner available for the Gt40 that is very cheap. Probably cheaper than any of the tune up parts.


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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 9:06pm
It seems that Motorcraft caps for cars have aluminium contacts and PCM caps use brass. The automotive ones also have a removeable cap at the #1 contact and for some reason that the PCM ones do not. My 95 had an aluminium one on it when I got it and it ran fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:14pm
Gary I think most of the quality dizzy caps are still brass terminals. I purchased a Accel cap and rotor kit for mine it has the rubber cap next to number 1 like you described.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:16pm
either way they are not on the shelf at local parts store...351w were never sold down here...so parts have to be imported from the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:31pm
Luch another thought with all this talk of distributor caps have a look inside dissy. Give the stator (PIP hall effect sensor) assembly a twist and see if it moves the plastic gets brittle and breaks down over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 10:35pm
Kap I use Amazon to get most of my Ford parts from the states. We have on the shelf parts for the 351W in Aus but still cheaper to import from the US in a lot of cases. The freight is very cheap no more expensive than local shipping. I think they have a multiple warehouses scattered in different countries.

Must have one in Australia maybe Argentina has one also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Gary I think most of the quality dizzy caps are still brass terminals.    


the Motorcraft oem's are aluminium Mark,anywhere to save a penny. Kap,I think a fuel injected Ford 5.0 (302) of 1990-1993 vintage uses the same cap if you have those there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-19-2016 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

(PIP hall effect sensor).

Slight thread jack here:
Mark,
What's the "PIP"? I'm only familiar with PNP and NPN. I tried looking up the PIP and couldn't find anything.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2016 at 12:28am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Mark,
What's the "PIP"? I'm only familiar with PNP and NPN. I tried looking up the PIP and couldn't find anything.


Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) a PCM GT40 terminolgy not a electrical acronym. The GT40 uses a hall effect sensor and a slotted cup on the distributor shaft to determine crankshaft position and rpms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-20-2016 at 6:42am
Mark,
Thanks. Got it! No wonder why I couldn't find an answer searching electrical acronyms. Having used plenty of sensors with ether PNP or NPN logic, I thought there was a new one on me!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2016 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by lewy2001 lewy2001 wrote:

Luch another thought with all this talk of distributor caps have a look inside dissy. Give the stator (PIP hall effect sensor) assembly a twist and see if it moves the plastic gets brittle and breaks down over time.


Dead on!!!! managed to fix the stator in position and boat pèrformed great all day.
No doubt this should go in the GT40 chart. Thanks Lewy!

Thanks to all for the advise given as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2016 at 11:26pm
I'll add this one to the GT-40 Diagnosis thread and spreadsheet.

So, is the fix to replace the PIP, replace the dizzy, or just figure out some way to secure the PIP in place?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2016 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:


So, is the fix to replace the PIP, replace the dizzy, or just figure out some way to secure the PIP in place?


In my case, just fixing the stator into position solved the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kapla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2016 at 12:02am
Hey Lucho, glad you got the issue squared out! Saw some pictures on Fb that made my figure yo had fixed your boat!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bri892001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2016 at 12:09am
Ok cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2016 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Bri892001 Bri892001 wrote:

So, is the fix to replace the PIP, replace the dizzy, or just figure out some way to secure the PIP in place?


To change the stator assembly is a quite a big job. If you can manage to secure the original assembly without changing it is a bonus. I was thinking of a product like "plastex" but a super glue may get you out of trouble for a little while.

To change stator it requires removing dissy pressing gear of the shaft and removing. (The dissy shaft goes through the centre of the stator assembly).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-27-2016 at 10:00pm
Just wanted to add that locking the stator in place also solved a jumping tachometer that i've experienced since owning the boat,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keuka 95 GT40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2016 at 4:35pm
Hi Luchog - just reading this post and want to clarify the fix you used.   I have a 1995 GT40 with very similar problems last summer. Boat runs great most of the time but occasionally it will miss-fire and hesitate after pulling first 2-3 sets of the day.

So "fixing the stator into position" solved the problem ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2016 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Keuka 95 GT40 Keuka 95 GT40 wrote:

Hi Luchog - just reading this post and want to clarify the fix you used.   I have a 1995 GT40 with very similar problems last summer. Boat runs great most of the time but occasionally it will miss-fire and hesitate after pulling first 2-3 sets of the day.

So "fixing the stator into position" solved the problem ?


In my case it did. But the failure was consistant. Have you done a complete tune up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScottZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2016 at 1:57am
I have replaced the distributor assembly. That is the quickest solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keuka 95 GT40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2016 at 3:04pm
a complete tune up has not been done in several years. I will need to check with my father on dates of service. Any recommendations on what should be addressed in a complete tune up ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2016 at 6:35pm
Alright. .another Keuka Fan!   Live in town or on the lake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keuka 95 GT40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2016 at 6:40pm
My family has been on the lake for over 40 years. We are spread around the northeast now but Keuka is always the destination of choice over the summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2016 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Keuka 95 GT40 Keuka 95 GT40 wrote:

My family has been on the lake for over 40 years. We are spread around the northeast now but Keuka is always the destination of choice over the summer.


And a great choice indeed! Where's your place? My family has been there since the Revolutionary War. I live in Georgia now, but we get to Keuka every summer, we have a family cottage on West Bluff that's been there forever....... My brother also lives year-round on west bluff up near the park,, and my mother lives by the college..

There's another CCFan "Keuka" in Hammondsport,, lives in the village I think.
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