to foam or not to foam |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Well...what it's really all about is...grown men are compelled to stuff tubular objects into cavities!
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Stang: What a way with words! Think you hit the noodle on the nose, so to speak.
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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John...did you see that CC skier on ebay...in orlando...it's a project but dirt cheep. The guy's reserve was not reached...I emailed him...the reserve was $400.00. If you have interest...check out the completed items, Engine needs rebuld, but I have a 302 sitting in the garage...want to partner up on it? Give me an excuse to drive to Orlando
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Gary; I did not see it but will check it out tonite. Maybe a Harley ride over that way is in order. Would love a partner on it.....but you don't need no stinking excuse to go on a road trip....just saddle up and visit the jbear!
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Do check it out...if it has potential email me and let me know.
lisaandgary@insightbb.com I just need an excuse to let the wife know I'm on a mission...she loves to travel anyway! |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Gary: Can you post a link? Went thru the list of ski boats and didn't find it. Don't know how to narrow my search. This computer still confounds me!
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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Here you go guys: '71 Skier
I also emailed the guy inquiring about the reserve. If the hull is solid, I dont see how you can go wrong for $400. |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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yep...thats it! I agree ...$400.00 is amazing. If the hull is in decent shape , the rest is gravy at that price.
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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stang,
And they talk about me having too many projects! I was watching it also. The first thing I thought of was a trip to see jbear also! You know youd need another driver to get it to GL tho! Go for it!!! and keep us posted!! |
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stang72
Platinum Member Joined: July-31-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
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Well at this point I have an good engine that needs assembled...thats my ptoject for now.I can keep it or find a boat to drop it into.
I was thinking maybe driving the engine there...provided the things worth working on....of couse all options are open! I think any Correct Craft at that price needs to be investigated.... If a trip comes to be...can I count on co-pilot Wood? |
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62 wood
Grand Poobah Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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stang,
Can you say "white knuckle" flight? Id love to go, but dont know how Id fit it in right now?! ........hmmmm, maybe jbear could bring it with him when he comes to Green lake!!! Ive got a Mustang hull I can "just have" in Ohio ,but cant even get there! ...someday..- |
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oldskiboat
Groupie Joined: June-16-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 92 |
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Guys, how would a closed cell foam work. It is not suppose to pick up moisture.
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Tomski
Senior Member Joined: October-19-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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I worked in a boat yard for 6 years and in that time I never saw any foam that didn't get wet, closed cell included. I don't think it adds anything structural to the boat, but can see that it will have a sound damping effect and, a$$uming it isn't pi** wet through, some bouyancy in the even of a hole.
I did the floor in my wildcat, finished last night, and didn't replace the foam. When I removed it it was very wet in the centre and between the port stringers soaked in petrol from an earlier fuel leak. It wasn't that bad a job to do, I got it all out in a morning using an adze and various garden tools! I am sceptical about covering a plywood floor in gla$$ as well. Every floor I have replaced has always delaminated and got wet between the wood and the gla$$. A ply floor will always rot eventually - it's wood, it's wet and it's not teak, but I think sealing it up so it can't breath speeds that process. Just my views, we'll see if the floor falls out of my boat next summer! |
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Easily Parted From Money
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hasbeenskier
Platinum Member Joined: May-23-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1116 |
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I hate I missed out on the noodle conversation.
Now lets see are they U.S.C.G. approved? |
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hasbeenskier
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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Well, my buddy has 17 years in, and he approved of it.
Only reservation I could think of is whether you actually affix them to the boat or just let them run free. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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Tomski, when I pulled up my floor due to a soft spot, my foam was completely dry. The water that was under there spread to the only place it could- the wooden stringer.
Oldskiboat, I would replace with closed cell foam. Its not too hard to work with- if you do a search you can find pics of my project where I used it to fill back in along the stringer that was rotted. |
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Tomski
Senior Member Joined: October-19-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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TRBenj, I guess mine was very old.
I just think it traps moisture and speeds rot, at least the Winner has fibregla$$ stringers so they can't rot, that made changing a rotten floor much less of a task. the whole job, including buying the materials, only took just over 2 days and cost less than £100 ($160ish). Still all good experience for when the Nautique arrives, no fibregla$$ stringers thin there!! |
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Easily Parted From Money
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21125 |
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Agreed- I think the newer closed cell foam is much better at not absorbing water. Another reason to use the foam (besides sound reduction) is the possibility of the hull "oil canning," which David F has mentioned before. I know some of the older boats came without foam, but it would seem that filling the void between hull and floor would solidify the entire structure a bit. |
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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I know a guy,who knows a guy, who's uncle put 2 liter coke bottles under the floor. He used spray can foam to glue them to the hull and each other. Sounds tempting ??? |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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the foam is going to prevent it from oil canning if the hull is weak enough to oil can then it's going to move the floor as well or compress the foam more, there is no structual advantage created by foam it's for flotation only.
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Tomski
Senior Member Joined: October-19-2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 227 |
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Have to agree with 79 about the strength thing - would you really want to be on a boat that relied on foam poured in as an after thought for its structural integrity? Although I'm sure it will stiffen the floor between stringers and supports it when it has rotted so you don't have to replace it quite as quickly.
I suspect that the actual reason for foam probably has more to do with regulatory requirements for inherant bouyancy and its relative cost when compared to creating watertight compartments - or maybe I'm just cynical! |
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Easily Parted From Money
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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The boat does not NEED the foam for structural integrity. The foam merely acts as a stiffner for the expanse of fibergla$$ say between parallel stringers (the stringers are the main structural members preventing/minimizing hull flex. In fact, the fibergla$$ composite structure would stay together even without the stringers). Fibergla$$ is a very flexible composite. Structurally, the flexing is not an issue. But, the foam can and will prevent the bottom of the boat from flexing (oil canning) when hitting waves/chop.
The foam used is a high compressive strenght foam that can withstand the forces of the waves/chop when spread over a relatively large area. If the foam is not there, no harm will come of the composite structure, but the hull will be noisier from the chop slapping the bottom of the hull like a drum. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
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I concur, I've seen a nautique destroy another boat in a glancing collision and net just a scratch in the jel.
They are overbuilt as is, without foam. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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FWIW: I just visited CC's website and looked in the "Quality" area and CC specifically states that ONE of the main benefits/purposes of foam in the hull is noise reduction/suppression. They talk about open placement of the foam (in lieu of blind placement) to ensure no voids are left without foam to ensure the hight possible noise suppression or something like that.
Also, on MOST of CC boats (past and present) the fibergla$$ floor is laid up directly on top of 2lb density foam. The foam is the main structural support of the floor as the 1/8" and thinner floor is not thick enough to support normal loads without the foam support. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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boy for a minute dave I thought you where heading in a different direction. I'll buy the floor support line.
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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So I guess you can't go cheap with the pool noodles?
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I once removed all of the foam from my boat. I blocked the four corners of the boat first. At one point I accidently knocked one of the braces out and did not realize it at first. When I crawled inside the boat the entire boat flexed up and down several inches. Also, the floor was very vulnerable to damage. Once I replaced the foam (using 4lb) the floor and hull stiffened substantially. When I gla$$ed the floor onto the hull over the floor I essentially finished wrapping the foam in fibergla$$ from the bottom of the boat, hull, and stringers wrapped in gla$$. I am certainly in favor of using foam.
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87BFN owner
Grand Poobah Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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I am also in favor of foam. If it cam from the factory it's there for a reason. Sometimes it might be to help build what ever it is your building. Other times it has a functioning purpose.
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Nautique Mike
Senior Member Joined: June-20-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Green Pea-
I say refoam but with a slight twist. I just did mine and came up with a way to let the water drain back to the bilge. That's if ever gets in... 1st off I added a couple more drain holes in the secondary stringers. One triangle in the rear like the main stringer and two round ones up front across from the center hull drain. 2ndly I took pool noodles.... Yep closed cel polyethelene pool noodles and cut them so they fit across the hull perpendicular to the secondary stringers. I sliced the bottom end corners off the noodles just below their diameter and squeezed them into place. Working from the stern foward I lifted them just off the hull a bit so water can pa$$ under them. The water then heads along the sencondary to the drain holes which lead to the main bilge. If you make a tight fit on the ends and side to side it allows you to pour the 2lb foam right over them without it leaking into your waterway below. It also helps your foam go farther because of it's insulating qualities for the exothermic reaction needed to expand. These pool noodles were a great fit. They are extremly chemical and water resistant, light weight, sound/vibration dampeners, and easy to work with. The price isn't bad either. This method worked very well for me. Then I re-installed the original fibergla$$ floor and it's stiff and quiet as can be. Dry too. Give it some thought... NM |
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Nautique Mike
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