GT40 probs |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Posted: June-29-2014 at 8:48pm |
I will try and make it brief:
Our cover does not keep out the rain. The plug was not pulled. The bilge filled up with water about half way up the oil pan. I drained the water, and put the boat in the water. It ran really rough with small backfiring. I shut it down and pulled it in the garage. 1. Cleaned Dist Cap and rotor. 2. Cleaned strainer (it was really full) 3. Tried to start it on the hose. Turned over, no starty 4. Pulled fuel filter it was pretty dirty. 5. Pulled spark arrestor it was kind of dirty. 6. Checked that both fuel pumps came on I am going to se marine tomorrow to get fuel filter, Dist cap & rotor. Next I will check for a big blue spark on the ignition side. I perused the diagnosis guide so it has lots of tips. My concern is that that I have some moisture in a relay or something. Any tips? Where do I start? |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Also,
I have the connectors pulled to the low and hi pressure pumps and the fuel canister spun back on the FCC. Can I turn the engine over safely to check for spark? Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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In theory, yes. In my previous experience with misbehaving GT-40's, I'd say you're on the right track with the tune up parts. Those are low hanging fruit as far as cost goes and are always good peace of mind to know they're new. Might as well throw a new FCC hose in there while you're messing with the canister. They can cause the "running really rough and backfire" We had the same issues last year after a new FCC hose, hard starting and all around running rough, which turned out to be a coil. If the others (tune-up/cheap parts) don't solve the problem then I'd look to the coil. |
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emccallum
Platinum Member Joined: August-08-2006 Location: Clarks Hill SC Status: Offline Points: 1084 |
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Aren't there a couple of relays on the back of the motor? Those are pretty cheap and do go bad.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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^^Agree on the relays.
In line Spark Testers come in handy for testing spark. You can leave your spark plugs in place so you don't have to worry about fuel getting everywhere. |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Got the spark tester today. Ruled out the ignition as the problem. Shot some start fluid in the throttle body with the fuel pumps unplugged, and it fired right up. I am now focused on testing the fuel pumps. I have a fuel pressure tester. I can see where to hook it up to the fuel rail, but there is also a schrader valve on the FCC itself. What is that for?
Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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If I had to guess on the FCC shrader valve it might be to bleed the system. Or to measure fuel pressure at different points.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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Brian would know, but aren't there good GT40 manuals available?
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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The Schrader valve on a fuel rail is indeed to check fuel pressure and you can use it to bleed pressure to change fuel filters. At least on an auto. I would have to assume the same thing on a boat.
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6097 |
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I hate to threadjack but my post of the other night was ignored and since there is a discussion of fuel pump"s" here, I thought I would jump in and try again. My buddy wants to make sure his boat is up and running on the fourth.
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“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I don't quite see any electrical going into or out of that but it actually looks more like a spin on fuel filter/water separator. If you're saying it has power I'm obviously wrong.
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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If you had flooding in the bilge the LP fuel pump, the one that looks like a big acorn hanging down below and to the side of the FCC, was immersed. You can disconnect it from the FCC and make sure it can fill up a container with gas. It's pretty low pressure, something like 5PSI.
The LP fuel pump can sound like it's on and still not work. Believe me on that one. Everything else is above the floor line (though your starter probably took a bath, blower as well). |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hey Larry,
From my meager research, and perusal of the manuals, I would say that is the Low Pressure pump. It looks like it may be situated a bit differently because I am guessing that it is near the starboard forward motor mount? Mine is near the port fwd part of the engine, and right next to its big brother, the big canister called the filter/water separator or FCC. The Low Pressure pump should deliver about 6Lbs pressure, and it also has a volume test over a period of time. Look in the reference section for your friend and get him the GT40 manual. There is a good description there. My thinking on his problem would be that the low pressure pump, which is a sealed unit, should be replaced. If it is popping breakers, I would just replace it. I think less than $150. Call Zach at N3, or if you are in NC you might call Skidim to get the parts faster. Also order the two relays at the back of the engine next to the CB's. They are about $15 and are the same unit. One runs the fuel system and the other the EEC. It seems they are also a weak point in the system, and it does not hurt to have them wrapped up in the glove box just in case. If I am wrong, I am sure I will be gently corrected! Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hey Joel. Thanks for getting my fat ass off the sofa! That was my plan today. I am going to volume test the low pressure pump. Do you or anyone else know the correct rate? I saw it in one of the GT 40 threads, but can not find it in the manual. The Manual we have in our ref section refers us to a specific separate manual on the fuel system if I remember correctly, and that manual is hard to find. Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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We have a manual for the GT-40, in the reference section.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Pro_BOss_GT-40_Service_Manual.pdf I personally think your best value is a pre-printed manual from skidim. I own the one at the top, it comes in a nice three ring binder and it's cleanly printed. You'd be hard pressed to print them yourself for less, unless you worked at Kinkos or something. There's two that would cover the GT-40, 3rd and 4th from the top: http://www.skidim.com/searchprods.asp?searchstring=manual&pagenumber=1&val=0 Sorry Larry, I had taken a look at your thread, but I had no idea on what's in the pic. |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Seacamper here it is:-
"Also check the output of low pressure pump as mentioned previously. This is achieved by disconnecting the high pressure pump electrical connections at FCC. Remove fuel hose from low pressure pump to FCC and place it in a container. Install the jumper to STO terminal it should pump about a US Quart in around 15-20 seconds." Larry that looks to be the same low pressure pump that PCM used on both the GT40 and the Excal. They are a Carter fuel pump. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Thanks Mark, Just what I was looking for. So I did that and my gas looks like lemonaid. How did that happen? I have poured out about a gallon, and its still lemonaid. Milky yellow. Could it be? Bad fuel all along? Sigh. I probably have about 8 gallons to dump. Where do you get rid of 8 gallons of gas? (I think we all know the answer to that) Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Eeesh, that's a lot of bad gas to get rid of, but at least you're on a path now.
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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-Divide gas equally and place into 4 large garbage bags. -Attach M-80 or quarter stick of dynamite to 3'x3' piece of card board, repeat 4 times -Place garbage bag on top of cardboard -Detonate remotely (minimum 100') |
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emccallum
Platinum Member Joined: August-08-2006 Location: Clarks Hill SC Status: Offline Points: 1084 |
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Did you have ethanol blend fuel in it? Sounds like you need to dump all the bad fuel, drain lines, change filters, and say a little prayer that that was the problem.
As for what to do with the old fuel....it can only go two places; The sky or back to where we got it! |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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My kids voted for the dynamite, but my wife overruled it. I guess it goes back to mommy nature. |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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So do I just ground the blue/orange pin from the STO connector and turn on the key and ignition and drain the 8 gallons through the low pressure pump? Or do I siphon it?
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I would get as much out by hand through the fill tube then dilute what is left with a fresh gallon or two, then pump that out.
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JPASS
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I like the dynamite idea too. You could probably pull it off Friday night without too many worries.
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I have always just evaporated bad gas in an oil drain pan. Depending on the amount, it can take some time and you will end up with a gooey mess.
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Well, I guess I need to pass on that I almost have the tank out of the boat. I needed to pull it anyway to go with my mad scientist idea of two jabsco pumps (one for each ballast tank) and to do that, I needed to pull the fuel tank anyway, so this is turning huge. So I am learning alot about the GT40. I am just going to hand dump the gas tank, slosh a gallon or so of fresh gas around and dump that. Then I am going to plumb the ballast pumps,put the gas tank back in, new fuel filter in, put about 5 gals of fresh gas in, prime both pumps, check the pressure, and if all is well crank her up and cross my fingers.
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Did you check the FCC hose and filter? Just saying, you're going to a lot of work and $ for a very common $1 part and a 15 min fix. Knock out the easy/cheap options first. Outside of that I'll shut up.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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If I were you, maybe fire the motor by supplying gas from a portable can or outboard tank before getting into the ballast project.
I'm sure you'll be fine, but I'd hate to see you spend time and money on ballast goodies before confirming that all is good under the hood. |
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seacamper
Platinum Member Joined: June-24-2010 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hey Chris, Yes, new filter and hose go in tomorrow. I will also have 2 relays on standby. I also needed to get to the anti siphon valves to rule out that simple problem. Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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seacamper
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Hey Brian, I did already run it on starter fluid, and it ran solid. I am sure its a bad gas/fuel delivery problem, and I think I have all the tools to trouble shoot it thoroughly tomorrow. I really needed to pull the tank because the fill hose was kinked really badly, which was causing a lot of kickback when filling. Tom |
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1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar
1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
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