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Not another Mustang restoration thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2016 at 10:37am
Looks nice John but polished aluminum requires maintenance, the anodized is just a wipe down after use.   I would finish the job especially if that's how it was from the factory
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2016 at 10:50am
Try to get a sample of the anodized finish before you have it done. We bought one of our boats as an unfinished project which had the windshield frame stripped and anodized and it looks decent, but different. I would preferred the PO had not refinished it and left it alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-21-2016 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Try to get a sample of the anodized finish before you have it done. We bought one of our boats as an unfinished project which had the windshield frame stripped and anodized and it looks decent, but different. I would preferred the PO had not refinished it and left it alone.

The PO didn't do it, I did. The finish was in no condition to put it back on the boat. It would have been a sore thumb. I considered having it chrome plated but will probably go with the original anodized finish. Chrome would pop though and I have two frames so it could be changed back but I'm apprehensive about handling the glass once let alone twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2016 at 6:42pm
Does anyone have a good source for a high quality crab cap & rotor for my Mallory YL distributor? I know there are some lousy ones out there,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2016 at 8:50pm
Summit Racing John,just remember Break Out Another Thousand-----
Link

rotor link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2016 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Summit Racing John,just remember Break Out Another Thousand-----
Link

rotor link

I've lost count.
Thanks Gary, I was looking at that but didn't know if it was any good. I need a rotor too. Do you know if it's the standard one or the compact one?
Are you staying warm? Hows the mustang? If you ever get back up north lets get lunch sometime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-23-2016 at 11:07pm
Pretty sure the rotor is the one I linked John,I will check I might have a picture somewhere,won't be until tomorrow though. Everyone and thing is fine John,When we get back in the spring we'll get together,I have to check out your progress- looking good from what I see here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-24-2016 at 1:35am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Pretty sure the rotor is the one I linked John,I will check I might have a picture somewhere,won't be until tomorrow though. Everyone and thing is fine John,When we get back in the spring we'll get together,I have to check out your progress- looking good from what I see here.

I was distracted and didn't see you link. WOW.
Things are coming along slooowly, but I'm getting stuff done. I made my decisions on the engine build and I should get it back in the next couple of weeks. I guess the cap search is a clue as to which way I went.
Stay warm and don't forget the sunscreen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2017 at 4:26pm
Help, I don't know what i'm doing. I bought a repro dash for the Mustang from a member here. It is very nice and I believe it is made from the same material as the original. The problem is it is thicker than the original. The gauges wont mount without cutting the mounting brackets down, and since I had the gauges restored, I would prefer not to do that. Can someone tell me the best way of making this stuff thinner? Surface planing? Just sand it till it's the right thickness? I want to get busy on making a new wiring harness and this stands in the way, I don't want to ruin it. Thanx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2017 at 4:35pm
John,
What's the base material? Looks like MDF? If so, the stuff does not like to be planed. I'd just trim the mounting brackets. From the looks of the stud length on the back of the one gauge, all you would need is maybe 1/8" off the brackets/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2017 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John,
What's the base material? Looks like MDF? If so, the stuff does not like to be planed. I'd just trim the mounting brackets. From the looks of the stud length on the back of the one gauge, all you would need is maybe 1/8" off the brackets/


Thanks Pete, I think that"s what it is and I don't know how to work it. If you wouldn't attempt it I certainly won't. I may try some CPES on it for water resistance and to darken it up a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2017 at 5:00pm

John,
I went back in the thread because I remembered we did discuss the MDF!!
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


John,
Weren't you concerned at one time about sealing the edge of the MDF you had made for the cluster? Did you ever do anything?

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

John and Peter,
First, do you know the specifics on the MDF backing? Some do have a high level of resin that will make them more water resistant than others. On the bottom edge, take some solvent like mineral spirits and see if it will soak in.. Even if it doesn't take on much solvent, I'd be inclined to CPES the edges as well as the holes. You would need to do some testing to make sure that any that does get on the wood grain doesn't harm it. I have a feeling that it won't since it's most likely a high pressure laminate "Formica". If some CEPES does get on the face, it would need to be wiped off quickly sine the solvents in it evaporate real fast..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-02-2017 at 5:47pm
Thanks again Pete. I separated the face from the backing so it's safe. I will try the mineral spirits and then the CPES on the holes first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2017 at 6:59pm
Tonight's project? Inspecting, cleaning, and assembling my spare distributor with an electronic H.E. kit, When I finish I will do the same with the original, but retain the points and condenser "just in case". I wouldn't want a good weekend to go to waste while I await the arrival of a replacement Pertornix unit after the inevitable failure so many insist I will have. I had a Pertronix unit in my Mercruiser and probably put 1,000 hours on it without problems. No need to keep a match book and a screwdriver in the tool kit anymore, Unlike points, it ether works or it's time to summon the Alumitoon for a tow. Thanks for the parts links Gary!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 6:26am
Im questioning my judgement right now. I spent some time on the distributors tonight. The one that was from the running engine was pretty rough. Good bushings but it had rusty advance weights that were, for the purpose of advance, frozen and the advance plate was visually worn. The dist from the old frozen engine was in much better shape. I'm making the best one I can for the conversion and just cleaning and re-assembling the other one. Parts are NLA and I seriously question the ability of this thing to hold a good curve when new, 47 years ago, under the best of circumstances. All this to keep a crab cap distributor. That DUI becons. I don't want timing issues with a fresh engine and this thing needs to be reliable, I anticipate it will get a lot of use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 8:07am
John,
Where is the wear on the advance parts? The pivots are the important areas and I'd say the springs are more important which I remember can be purchased. BTW, I wouldn't worry too much with a couple degrees off on the advance. You're not out there racing the lakes of MW's!! Go for the crab!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 10:08am
I wouldn't DUI a HM. There are shops that can rebuild an old Mallory, that's what I would do in your shoes. But I'd also skip the pertronix...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 10:23am
A good discussion regarding DUI versus YL can be found athttp://www.network54.com/Forum/424840. The owner of the web site loves originality, but hates the crab caps.

I'd go with your YL and see how it runs and like Tim says, stick with the pojnts. If you can pull that YL apart, you can certainly maintain a points system without much effort.

We had issues with our YL last year and what I learned is don't expect the curve to be right by the book, but it will be close enough, and don't rely solely on a timing light to set the timing. Chances are that you will need more initial advance as the curve will be a little short.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 12:37pm
Bruce, if you're not using a timing light to set the timing, what are you using?

I suspect you mean that timing shouldn't be set by the base timing alone, and that I agree with. There is no scientific way to check the shape of the timing curve with a light, but a decent one will allow you to check initial and final... and both should be taken into account when deciding on your final setting.

The crab caps don't seem significantly different than modern Mallory distributors... I don't love the design (Prestolite seems a bit nicer) but plenty of folks run them without issue. DUI is nice from a performance perspective but would look sorely out of place on a vintage engine. I'm running a points Prestolite screw down (late 80's vintage?) on my '71 331 stroker... I don't think it will hold me back much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 12:40pm
John give Jeff a call here- Advanced Distributors and pick his brain.I had him go thru a Lucas distributor for my MG which he specializes in. His web site says he does others. Maybe Tim knows the curve it needs or maybe Jeff will know if he works on them. Here is how my Lucas came back to me-



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 12:49pm
[QUOTE=TRBenj] Bruce, if you're not using a timing light to set the timing, what are you using?

After taking advice from a mutual friend, who told me he doesn't use a timing light, we just turned the distributor till it ran the best. We put a timing light on it just to see where it came in and the initial was about 13 and the final advance was 32+-.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 12:54pm
Only one person I can think of who is bold enough to do that and he knows what I would tell him! It's really tough to dial in the timing perfectly by feel or ear and you can easily do damage if you're not super careful. In the case above, it sounds like you got it pretty close to spot on... but I would have used a light to set it rather than the seat of my pants. The timing light does not lie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 1:01pm
After 2 years of screwing around with a timing light, it worked for us!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 1:13pm
And a broken clock is right twice a day, ha. Proper tools and the ability to use them will always triumph over (and certainly wouldn't be any worse off) than gut feel. Of course, background knowledge on what you're working in is always required- the timing light will only tell you what the timing is- not where to adjust it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Bruce, if you're not using a timing light to set the timing, what are you using?

I suspect you mean that timing shouldn't be set by the base timing alone, and that I agree with. There is no scientific way to check the shape of the timing curve with a light, but a decent one will allow you to check initial and final... and both should be taken into account when deciding on your final setting.


Don't know what you mean by "scientific way" but if you want to know what your curve looks like, why not use a timing light and check the timing every 500 rpm and plot it on a graph?

Or whatever RPM interval you want to use like every 250 or whatever..

This would be assuming you have the timing graduations on the damper either from the factory or are using a timing tape on the damper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 3:38pm

If you can find a shop that still has a distributor machine and knows how to use it then you will be able to set up the advance curve. I know of a machine near me but have zero idea of how to operate it. Been too long ago. Maybe some old guy like Pete would know how.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 3:52pm
John

Maybe Pete can come up with a link to the YL advance spring kit, that has the words IN STOCK next to the description. The part number from Mallory was 29015 and those kits have gone the way of the dinosaur and Pete's old Suburban .Every once in a great while you might stumble into something on EBAY or a distributor shop might have a stash cleverly hidden away somewhere.

If you want a couple of Mallory weights, with decent nylon bushings for the pivot holes and an advance plate for that distributor, send me a PM with your address and they'll magically show up in your mailbox about a week later. It's all used and in good condition.

It sounds like your distributor shaft bushings are good, so you should be able to make a working distributor out of the second one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

And a broken clock is right twice a day,


Not sure how that applies, but not using a timing light isn't the 1st time I've been told to do that by a knowlegable Correct craft person, and back in the day the normal way for the local Correct Craft dealer to time the engine was to turn it until it achieved the highest rpm at full throttle and then back it off 500 rpm. We came in right on just turning it till it ran good and used the timing light to make sure the timing was within reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 7:31pm
Thanks everyone, I am able to make a pretty good distributor out of the two. Although they are the same model they are not identical, I chalk it up to the difference of a 69 vs a 70. As you can see below the distributor from the running engine looks great and it did run, until you take the breaker plate off. The advance weights were frozen and the weight studs have worn into the advance plate, This would really screw with the advance curve. One of the plastic bushings has a very small chip out of it but it is small enough that it would perform properly. Even so I   am using the best ones I have. They show no real wear. As to the advance weights, the 70 has different primary and secondary advance weights whereas the better distributor of the two (the one from the old frozen engine) has two identical weights. Both have different springs for the primary and secondary weights. The advance plate shows very slight wear where the weight studs ride. Problem is the springs are NLA. I have done a good deal of searching and have come up MT. Even if I were to find new weights how would one determine the correct weights to use without a distributor machine or trial and error plottoing the results? The springs are color coded for tension identification and you can see that color ship sailed. Also if I try to measure the resistance it will dictate I put springs with the same tension as the ones I have back in. What's the point of that? I see no down side to the Pertronix unit. It is going in. I will order new points and condensor and keep them set up on a breaker plate for emergencies. It takes very little time to change them out. I guess I will do what I can with what I have and see how it works out. These photos should convince anyone avoiding service on the distributor not to put it off. Keep it properly lubricated or it will end up like mine. The worn one has about1652 hours on it, im sure it would be in much better condition if it was properly maintained.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2017 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Only one person I can think of who is bold enough to do that and he knows what I would tell him! It's really tough to dial in the timing perfectly by feel or ear and you can easily do damage if you're not super careful. In the case above, it sounds like you got it pretty close to spot on... but I would have used a light to set it rather than the seat of my pants. The timing light does not lie.

Tim,
I'm shocked that you can't time an engine without a timing light and only know one person that will do it. We used to do it all the time at Watercraft Sales. It became so routine that the mechanics wouldn't even get their timing lights out. You advance the distributor to the max RPM and the retard it slightly. NEVER had any damaged engines!!!


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