HELP!? 351w wont start warm! |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: March-27-2011 at 12:40am |
|
So I have asked many mechanics to take a look at my boat, and we can't figure this one out.
Let me know your thoughts (the guys on here really seem to know their stuff!) I'll let you know what I've tried already. It's a '74 nautique. 351w reverse rotation. New plugs, starter, plugs, battery. Simply put, it won't start when it's hot. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER! It starts fine, hot or not, in my driveway hooked up to the hose. For some reason, once it's out on the water, as soon as I shut it off, it won't start for about an hour. Any ideas?!? ps I have searched but I couldn't find this problem... |
||
critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Coil could be getting hot and breaking down.
What kind of coil are you running ? Also make sure that it is not sitting on the Intake. It can draw heat. I had to change to a Blaster II because mine kept getting hot and started cutting out or would not start when hot. Also verify that you are not "leaking" fuel from the carb when you shut it off. This will flood it. |
||
1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Teddee -If you buy a 'Blaster II' make sure it is the Epoxy version -if you want to install it on it's side. A regular Blaster II has to stand vertical.
|
||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The Coil thing was one of the things we thought could be wrong, We hooked up a new coil while the boat was not starting, and it did the exact same thing.
However, the leaking fuel from the carb could be it? Maybe it leaks from the bouncing around on the water, but not when sitting on the driveway? How would i make it not leak? Thanks for the quick reply! I've been trying to figure this out for a full year now! lol |
||
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
A worn needle & seat in the bowl would cause flooding. Have you ever rebuilt the carb?
|
||
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, the carb was just rebuilt. About 3 weeks ago.
If was flooded, when i start it full throttle, it should clear it out or no? Reason I ask, I try to start it full throttle and it still doesn't start. However, it does seem to help when it finally does start, it's because i have it full throttle. Should i send the carb back to the mechanic? |
||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Im wondering if it's the distributer. Any ways to test it? Im getting spark, but maybe the timing is off when it's hot?
Also, im going to check the timing again, one time the bolt got loose and it changed itself... Im wondering if it did it again. Thanks for the help so far guys. |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
it may be leaking down into the engine and once you full throttle it, it allows the air in to burn the fuel. what i would do in this case is let it sit for a while out there and pull the flame arrestor and stroke the carb watching down the throat to see if you get a nice steady stream "squirt" (i was trying to avoid squirt and throat)
and as suggested by prior posts, go after the carb again. a hot coil is a hot coil, and will affect performance all the time and not just intermintently....really sounds like a fuel issue |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Please clarify, won't start or won't turn over when hot?
|
||
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Gottask: It just keeps spinning but doesn't fire up
Eric: When i do that, i get a steady stream. Strong squirts right down the throat lol. Full throttle VS regular throttle. Is there a difference the way the carb reacts? In other words, on land i would never give it full throttle to rev it up, however, on the water i do. Would that be the issue? Should i test it out on the water and not give it full throttle and see what happens? |
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21115 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Yes, the further you engage the throttle, the more the butterflies open. More throttle = more air. Based on the symptoms youre describing, Id bet good money that your carb is leaking after shut down. Pop the flame arrestor off and have a look. |
||
critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
[QUOTE=TRBenj] Id bet good money..... QUOTE]
So what do you do with Bad money there Tim ?? |
||
1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
He uses it to buy Bilgecote. |
||
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
When it finally does catch, do you get black smoke? That could be further evidence of the carb leaking after shutdown.
|
||
mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My buddies boat was doing the same thing...or at least the same thing I think.
The...coil I believe was the culprit. Is that the mechanical device with two screws on it? I think they used a screwdriver to bridge the screws to override the thing and it started great. Would that make sense? I'm not mechanically inclined enough to make this a for sure thing. But I THOUGHT that's what they did.... Make any sense at all or was I not in the proper state of mind when I heard that? |
||
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
mdvalant, that sounds like a starter relay they might have bridged with the screwdriver. I've seen that done on cars.
Sounds like teddeee is talking about an engine that cranks, but won't fire. Vapor lock issues is another possibility? |
||
mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That's what my buddy's boat was doing....it would run like a champ...pull some acts, turn it off and it would not start. Turn over like a son of a B but wouldn't fire. Just seemed like there was no spark. It was weird.
Really made us mad lol |
||
Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Does it turn over slower when it wont crank?
|
||
Tim D
|
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21115 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ha, GD bilgekote. Ive got a gallon of white and a gallon of gray... probably wont use the stuff again! Coils can certainly overheat and cause the boat not to run once it warms up. However, if the symptoms only rear their ugly head when a warm RESTART is attempted, then Im still guessing carb leak after shut down. Tim, having the initial timing too far advanced will cause a hard start warm or cold, right? |
||
eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
sometimes you can lead a horse......
i too feel its carb related, but, could be wrong, Tim, I got a gallon of gelcoat (gray) and a qt of black and a qt of red...with the thinners...any use for them? call me if you do |
||
"the things you own will start to own you"
|
||
skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What is vapor lock??? |
||
1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
||
Teddeee1981
Newbie Joined: May-13-2010 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thanks guys!
It does sound slower when i try to crank it after it's warm. BUT i really think it's because im trying to start it for so long.... I'll be taking the carb back to the guy this weekend. He also seems to think it COULD be the problem and will test it. It has a brand new starter relay, also has a spark when hot. The timing could be it, will test it this weekend again. Although it was set at 8. it may have moved. Also No black smoke... |
||
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I don't know all the science behind it, but it basically has to do with a fuel line that's not under pressure gets too hot. The gasoline starts to evaporate in the line and causes a little air bubble. Newer cars never have this problem anymore, because the gas is pushed so hard from the in-tank fuel pumps (part of the fuel injection system). It's more a problem when gasoline is being pulled (rather than pushed) from engine mounted mechanical fuel pumps common in older cars and boats. I know there are kits out there, that some of the newer, but pre-fuel injection boats have already and you can retrofit. But yeah, worth double checking the timing too. |
||
skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thank you brian.. That makes since. I am wondering if it like eric said it is a fuel delivery issue???
Timing consist of elctrical timing with the key and with the set of timing on the motor right? I have never understood timing.. |
||
1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I remember a post several years ago from one of our past members that has what I consider very good engine skills. He stated (in his very "frank" terminology), that marine engines do not vapor lock. The reason being is they do not see the heat under the dog house like a automotive engine sees under it's hood. I happen to agree with him. I have never see a marine engine vapor locked.
|
||
malibud
Gold Member Joined: July-08-2009 Location: north carolina Status: Offline Points: 611 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I am sure someone will correct me but... I think timming is the timming of the spark to create igniton fire. too soon and half burn't gas and back fire too late ?
|
||
Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2635 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Have you checked the exhaust manifolds for leaks? They could be leaking water into the motor and keeping it from firing up. Water won't compress and slower cranking is a sign.
|
||
Tim D
|
||
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I think I had stumble acrross this kit from SkiDim and that's what gave me the idea: Vapor lock kit Looks like this kit replaces the single pump with a push/pull setup. It's funny that it's for Indmar, as a guy on my lake was having trouble with a Malibu when it was hot. Of course, his was cutting out while under way... a little different issue. |
||
Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Do 74's have anything at all in the way of relays that could affect this?
I know anything electrical can be less conductive when hot. Hence starter motors always acting up more when a car is fully warmed. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Brian, The only relay would be the start relay (solenoid). They do go bad but usually from other causes. Low voltage from a bad battery, poor battery connections and bad/undersized cables are typical. The low voltage causes high amperage (Ohms law) that the start relay can't handle. It welds the contacts inside together or burns them to the point that not much get's through them. I do not feel this is the problem on this boat. He does say it does crank (turn over). You may be thinking about the injected engines with the small relays for the fuel pumps that go bad. |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |