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265 horsepower or 300 horsepower

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dward View Drop Down
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    Posted: March-15-2010 at 5:58pm
I am about to buy a sport nautique. There are three I am looking at. 97 sport GM 350 EFI 300HP motor, 750hrs. 96 351 ford carburated PCM engine 265hp 306 hrs. 96 Ford PCM 351 GT-40 multi-port EFI engine w/ 310HP 541 hours. This will be our first boat. Can anyone help me about the different engines and which ones are better?                                                                                                                                         All the boats have great interiors. Maintenance records. Decals good. I am leaning towards the 96 265hp. That one and the 97 have great flight control towers and speakers. We have small kids and plan on doing alot of tubing, alot of skiing, some wakeboarding and some surfing. Will 265hp do the job for this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sephmu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 6:17pm
I can't speak for the 300 horse chevy motor, but I have a 97 sport with the GT-40 and couldn't be happier. Plenty of power, fires right up, worry free. Not to mention alot of people get well over 2000 hours on these motors! I had a 94 ski with the carbed motor, it ran great as well but sometimes was a little tough to start when cold, also not quite as powerful obviously. Also, it seems alot of folks end up having an issue with the "Pro-Tec" electronic ignition, I think however there is an affordable retrofit kit.

In my opinion, go with the GT-40 and don't look back....but that's just me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 6:19pm
The engine is one factor, but I would not think the most important. All three engines would be fine.

I would put price
Condition of gel coat/decals
Condition of upholstery
Maintenance records on the engine

Above just engine alone.

Maybe even color.

The GT 40s are well liked engines. In general, the Ford's have a bit more low end torque than do the Chevies. The GT 40 is typically very reliable.

The 265HP is considered a bit light by today's standards. That's mostly because people load the boats up with 1000s of lbs of ballast which was never anticipated when that boat was built. However, there are plenty of boats with 240 to 285 HP doing just fine, even with big ballast loads.

BKH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by dward dward wrote:

I am about to buy a sport nautique. 96 351 ford carburated PCM engine 265hp 306 hrs.


I look at a boat a little different than most,MOTOR choice being the primary factor.If the apperance is close on all the above mentioned boats, I would not hesitate to take the carb motor over the other two.
The GM is tough, but lacks the low end grunt that the FoMoCo has.
The Pro-Tech will give you problems, just which week end it will ruin, is only in the cards. But it will fail,Dizzys and carbs have been around a long time,hard to beat ..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sephmu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 6:47pm
Your friends/spouse will understand when you ask them to sit on 5 gallon buckets in lew of the extra 10-35 HP, right?!

Just kidding, as BKH said, the overall condition is a much larger factor in these boats, and in reality, you will have just as much fun in any of them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by boat dr boat dr wrote:


The Pro-Tech will give you problems, just which week end it will ruin, is only in the cards. But it will fail,Dizzys and carbs have been around a long time,hard to beat ..........

None of the engines in question have the Protec ignition. That was only used on carb'd and TBI motors from 91-95.

If all else is equal, the GT40 multiport EFI is the best motor of the bunch. That was a great performing engine, and had a great run from 95-02.

The '97 with the Chevy must be an Apex? I thought it was rated at 320hp, though. It doesnt seem like there were many boats sold with that engine package- most likely because it was an upcharge over the GT40, which was a great engine. I wouldnt expect the Apex to be as good out of the hole, though it may hold a slight top end advantage. I cant speak to the engines reliability... though for the right boat, Id take a chance on one.

The carb'd Ford would also be a solid performer- though the boat would lack a bit of top end compared to the other 2. This would only be a consideration if youre barefooting and need the extra few mph. With the right prop, this engine wouldnt give up anything out of the hole compared to the other 2.

Like BKH said, the condition of the boats would be my primary consideration.
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Sephmu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sephmu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 7:02pm

None of the engines in question have the Protec ignition. That was only used on carb'd and TBI motors from 91-95.


I learn something here everyday! Sorry for the mis-info....so my carbed '94 with the Pro-tech button on the back was TBI??



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sephmu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 7:07pm
Disregard that TBI question....and I still gotta work on getting that quote thing dialed in, i'll just stay safe and steer clear of the quotes from now on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tullfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 8:02pm
I can't believe you guys let the "Tubing" comment slide.

Welcome aboard dward (witness protection program?)
Play hard, life's not a trial run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 8:24pm
Timmy and Brian forget about my post,it was about motors and reliability,never mind, all ya gotta do is look good right..........Boat dr
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 8:34pm
Come on Doc, you and I both know that the overall condition of a boat is pretty important- its a good sign of how it was maintained. That will affect reliability too! Like I said, none of the motors in question have the Protec.

Besides, I would expect all 3 motors to be fairly reliable. Both Fords have excellent reputations. There arent as many Apex's around, but I havent heard anything bad about them either. I suspect you can still get parts to support all 3. I do agree that the carb motor would be easiest and cheapest to maintain due to its simplicity... but that being said, Id pick the GT40 every time, all else being equal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 8:34pm
??? Not from me Doc. I didn't even make a post after yours.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by bkhallpass bkhallpass wrote:

??? Not from me Doc. I didn't even make a post after yours.

BKH


Brian, on your list, maint. and motor were at the bottom .

Cosmetics ????? Interior ?????? Higher on the list.....


I have a different point of veiw I guess,

Gotta look good, even if it dont run,...........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by dward dward wrote:

and plan on doing alot of tubing,

Originally posted by tullfooter tullfooter wrote:

I can't believe you guys let the "Tubing" comment slide.
Welcome aboard dward (witness protection program?)


I just got back and I did notice it!!!

No name,

Check this out tubes of all sizes
How small are the kids? Watch out because we have a thread showing some young ones taking on the challenge of boarding/skiing using some skill.
Welcome and keep us posted with the boat shopping.


54 Atom


77 Tique

64 X55 Dunphy

Keep it original, Pete
<
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-15-2010 at 10:00pm
I see.

I did not enumerate nor prioritize my list. Condition of the boat
including engine maintenance would be more important to me than which of those three motors were in the boat. I believe them all to be acceptable motors.

If the boats had the Pro-Tech Ignition, which I knew they did not, then I might be more concerned with which motor was in the boat.

Given that I don't personally favor one of those three motors heavily over the other, and if price, condition and motor maintenance, were roughly the same, then I might even look at something as superflous as
color.

Personally, I have a slight preference for the GT 40 motor, but I wouldn't pay a great deal more for it, particularly in a used boat.   I wouldn't take the boat with GT 40 if it needed 3K in upholstery work, and I wouldn't take the GT 40 in an Ugly color, if one of the other two were colors I like.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 2:38pm
if you are planing on modifing the motor later I would get the 350, They all will be standard rotation engines. Getting parts for the Chevy will be cheaper and you have many more options when it comes to upgrades with the chevy block compared to the fords, exhaust being a major plus, you have one option with the ford's besides lucking out on e-bay.


but that being said the GT-40 would be my second choice, but if the gel and interior are not comparable then that would take priority, as the engines are a flip of a coin in stock form.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 2:55pm
Chris, the prices on Chevy parts will be cheaper- but if thats a MPEFI engine, upgrades will become much more tricky (injector upgrades A/F curves, etc)! If he had engine upgrades in mind, Id suggest sticking with the carb'd motor.

Either that or wait until Joe pioneers some GT40 upgrades and have the best of both worlds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:04pm
throttle plates and injectors are easy, cam's and heads are easy, not much of a ECM change but that's not that hard either.

Main advantage and biggest bottle neck is the exhaust and there are 10 different choices compared to one very expensive option you have to wait for and then hope thay made it right and it doesn't have to be sent back because it doesn't fit under the motorbox or bolt up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:09pm
I suppose it all depends on how far you want to take the upgrades... but the carb'd motor would still be the easiest to tune yourself. As far as I know, no one here has modified an EFI PCM and shared tuning tips. Joe will be the first, and Im looking forward to that project. Lots of proven carb combinations, though.

Agreed on the exhaust upgrades being much more plentiful on the bowtie side... but theres no such thing as a cheap performance marine exhaust system, regardless of engine make! Im finding this out right now with our BBC. The Hi-teks are actually pretty competetively priced compared to other stuff out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:18pm
find used performance exhaust on ebay for a ford, good luck, now go look how cheap you can pickup chevy stuff for.

The best thing about EFI is the sensors and the engine's ECM and the ability for the ECM to change as the injectors and throttle plates are increased, cams are half the cost, heads are a wash, ignition is non-factor. EFI are a lot easier than you might think unless you getting very crazy with the mods
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67nautique312 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:23pm
This is gonna get good.....Trbenj/boatDr/ & 79Nautique on the same thread talking motors.......can't wait to see how this turns out....

I like reliability and to have the boat look good all in the same package! I wish i could afford one of those newer boats! someday maybe????
1963 Classic (handed down to my daughter)
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1971 Ski Nautique Promo
86 Silver Nautique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:29pm
Well most of the EFI motors are already approaching 1hp per cubic inch, so how many mods can you do that would be considered tame? Going stroker is the next logical step (at least it would be for me), and thats going to require a retune.

If you can find a nice performance exhaust for cheap for a BBC, send it my way... its not as easy as I had hoped. There are more options, sure- but theyre all expensive. Youre looking at a minimum of $700-800 (if youre really lucky and know where to look) for good used. $1000-1500 is more typical (again, used). New prices start at $1300-1400, but youre looking at aluminum. Hiteks are about cheapest all-stainless option (~$2k for a BBC). You can get a new SBF set for $1500. Not a huge difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:36pm
[QUOTE=67nautique312] This is gonna get good.....Trbenj/boatDr/ & 79Nautique on the same thread talking motors.......can't wait to see how this turns out....

Yall ain't gonna suck me into that vacuum.....

Timmy knows all..............
Chris has done it all.........
Boat dr is dumb as a brick.........

                    End of subject


Nothing is impossible for the man that does not have to do it himself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:39pm
well I'll check with my buddy and see if he is replacing his on the Nortec when he adds inter-coolers to his, but they're chrome or polished and you might have to get new risers. I'm assuming the 501/502 block has the same bolt pattern as yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 3:44pm
Yes, 502 (8.2) uses the same exhaust as the 454. The 496 (8.1) is different. Any leads are appreciated- thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 4:03pm
Got a TXT back and he is re-using them, wasn't sure if the 60K he's spending included new mainfolds or not or if the inter-cooler played a part where they needed changed to a different style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emccallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-16-2010 at 6:42pm
To the OP, as a slalom skier, I really have not noticed much difference between the 351 carb motor and the gt 40 for general use. They will both pull my arms off, and ski me 34mph. IMO a good prop will make more difference than those two motors. The GT 40 does have a few more expensive replacement parts, like fuel pumps, and I would recommend carrying a couple of spare relays. They are both good motors, and you should have plenty of power with either one. I would only slightly weigh the GT 40 motor over the carb. Maybe not at all if other factors were involved. Both can have Perfect pass setup. A tower is great with kids and wakeboards. Especially if it has some racks. Dump the tube. No experience with the GM.
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