Valvoline VR1 racing oil in name only |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Laurel, thats from a class I took in 1983, many brain cells have vanished, thats why i said from memory lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric,
Mark (LLS) is a HS Power Mechanics teacher (remember they used to call it auto shop!!) so I'm glad to see he's teaching his kids all the correct terms! Martin, In 74 I don't think 20-50 was around yet so 10-30 was it. FWIW, I'm running VR1 20-50 in all my boats (54,64 and 77) |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I hope he's very stern on calling them engines
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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KennyA
Groupie Joined: May-21-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Picked up some of the VR1 (I have begun to doubt my original running of Mobil 1 High Mileage which I ran last year with no problem) for my old 'Tique and was looking around on the Valvoline site and came accross this page on ZDDP:
http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf They are claiming their SynPower synthetic oil has a zinc/phosphorus additive. Any thoughts? |
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Kenny <>{
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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Mobil 1 20w50 is has the ZDDP.
On a seperate but related note, once GM goes under with Chrysler hopefully we will get some more Ford marine engines Then all you GM people can put your oil filters on a the correct motor in your Correct Craft. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Maybe there is Fiat power in the future? We used to call them Mussolini's revenge!
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I must admit, my 502 runs just a little sweeter with the Ford filter on her.
On another note. I am admittedly not much of a motorhead, but I am learning here. I do not have the correct oil in the Mustang. I have about 2 hours on the engine and would like to convert it to the proper ZDDP containing oil. Should I do it immediately or is it fine to wait til a scheduled change. Same goes for my wife's Mustang convertible engine, which is also a 289. It only has about 25 miles on it since I changed it last. And if so, do I really need to change the filter too? Or is that fine? |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I have found most oils around here still have the Zinc additive, some in more proportions than others.
Right now I'm using a straight W40 for diesel engines called "HD Suplemento 1", I took a look at the catalog and found it has 1% Distiofosfato de Zinc wich I guess is the ZDDP you talk about. |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Luchog, I would do a little research on that oil, if the levels are too low it will cost more than an oil change. This subject has been covered, with a lot of data gathered. The general rule in the US is Vavoline VR- 1 and the Shell Rotella T 30 or 40 weight.
Do not remember specific ppm on both the Zinc & phosphorus content , but they seemed to be the highest. But it never hurts to raise the warning flag to all that do not understand the newer oils and their reforulations that can destoy a flattet moor quickly. All in this being said , bottom line "be careful of the oils you put in an old motor like ours, roller motors dont care......... |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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Ive been using the Rotella, called the 800 line and they confirmed all thier oils were high on the Zinc list
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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One thing I forgot to add, last month when I had my cylinder heads off for a valve job, I took some of the flat tappets out and saw absolutely no signs of wear or contact on their bases.
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Interestng (to me anyway) story on oils....I had just completed the rebuild this spring on my 351. Hadn't really been too concerned about oils (other than break in procedure oil in which I used one of the heavy duty diesel oils suggested on this site). Drained that out after break in, and just put some straight 30 weight oil in that I bought at AutoZone. I picked it out because the front of the label says...."High Performance...Great Protection".
So, we are out in the boat for the first run of the year. I keep an extra quart of the AutoZone 30wt in the boat. My 19 year old son picks it up and starts reading the back of the label. It says...."This oil should not be used in engines made after 1930........and it contains no detergents or additives". WHAT THE HECK!?!?!?! I am thinking, oh god, what have I just done to the engine. I put about 4 hours on the engine with that crap oil in it. I came home and did a bunch of research on this site about oils. I settled on the Rotella T. However, I couldn't find the 30wt or 40wt, so I went with the 15w40. Are there any problems with this multi-weight and having adequated ZDDP's? Interestingly enough, I also went to a GM dealership and asked a Service Mgr. about oils for our two Chebby Impalas, as it relates to ZDDP's and the best oils to use. The guy does not know what I am talking about, and he tells me that he is a recent retiree from GM Powertrain Div. I was very surprised that a GM Service Mgr. had no idea about this topic!! |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Are there any problems with this multi-weight and having adequate ZDDP's?
There is not enough ZDDP's to properly protect the valve train.The straight weights are available , you just have to look harder.GM made an additive for years to supplement todays reformulated oils. But I think it is now NLA. All of this is a result of catalytic converters and the particulate filters mandated for the new diesels.Both Zinc and Phosphorous have a detrimental effect on the emission systems. David beware of the lube you use, sad but true that a simple oil change can do dollars in damage......... |
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Billy....I don't disagree with your comment. Thats why I immediately pulled that AutoZone brand 30wt out, and put the Rotella T in.
BUT, a sincere question...are you saying that the 15w40 is not as good as the straight 30wt or 40wt? Just trying to learn here! I had done a lot of google searches on the topic, and read a lot of posts on auto and boat websites that folks were using the Rotella T 15w40 for higher ZDDP's. I am just trying to get a definitive answer, and not ask a repetitive questions. So, why do they add more ZDDP's to the straight weights vs. the multi-weights? Thanks! Dave |
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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The multi grades are used in the newer motors that would have a catalytic converters.There was a chart I think TRBenj found that shows all the ppm's of the various additives.
Kinda scary to see what all goes in the oils we assume are just oil.The straight weights are mostly used in diesel motors, tractors or stationary power plants,therefore no emission devices. The Graymarine engine in the Dart calls for a straight weight non detergent . I am using the Rotella T30 in all my old iron and 20/50 Castrol in everything else. This was my oil of choice for years, but fear of a cam wipe out has changed my views on what is healthy for both the stroker and the 60 year old powerplant in the Dart. This is simply my perspective on the brand and type that I use to service the engines that come thru my shop and what I need to do to make sure I do not destroy a perfectly good motor with a bad choice of oils.I am the one that will buy that motor . |
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xjglen
Groupie Joined: August-02-2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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The motor in this example would be a flat tappet motor.
http://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=650&page=4#Post650 Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a good example for those of us with the standard flat tappet motors. Or am I just trying to make my self feel better because that's what in my oil pan right now. |
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93 Ski Nautique
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mndanielsncsu
Senior Member Joined: March-27-2008 Location: Huntersville NC Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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So should I be using Valvoline VR1 20w50 in my 93 w/ Pro-Boss? I've been using Rotella SAE 30. Or should I search out VR1 straight 30?
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1993 Sport Nautique - sold May 2010
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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I would stay with your first choice of the 30 Rotella.Plenty of ZDDP in the sraight weight, I think the levels are lower in the multi's........
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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mine is classified:
API SF/CC MIL-L-46152C |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Not all multi's, Doc. Rotella puts less zinc in the 15w40 than the straight weights, but thats I dont believe that is the case with the Valvoline VR1. |
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xjglen
Groupie Joined: August-02-2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Talking directly to Shell I was told that there is actually more ZDDP in there multi weight Rotella oils. I'll do some research to find out what levels are in the VR1 oils.
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93 Ski Nautique
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I talked to the local oil manufacturer here in Argentina, YPF, and exposed the issue with the ZDDP additive in US oils, he said that even though most oils in Argentina have it, all engines could use an antifriction additive as well, and that ZDDP is just one of many.
In my case, I put a can of Patriot Power MT-10 every 3 oil changes. I guess it really works since rpms bumped by 200 after I made the treatment. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Luch, be careful- that stuff sounds like snake oil to me! There are VERY few additives that arent heavily debated over on BobIsTheOilGuy- most arent recommended. Im no chemical engineer, but as I understand it, ZDDP is a heavy metal additive that actually helps oil "stick" to metal surfaces, which is exactly what we need on the flat tappet lifters to cam contact patches in our engines. I would not think that it would be called an "anti friction" additive, as it seems to do just the opposite. Having it in the oil certainly doesnt make the engine more efficient- it does the exact opposite. Newer oils, especially synthetics are known to be slipperier and improve engine efficiency- but thats not necessarily a good thing if youre looking to protect your cam. Tread carefully! |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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I though Patriot Power as known in the US as well.
It does not affect the oil but the magnetic charges on the metals, by equalling polarities it makes metals repeal each other thus reducing friction, like when you try to put 2 magnets together. This a sample video testing it against Molikote, another kind of oil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_yPI7dyJXo Sorry it's in spanish, but check the pressure gauge. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Ive never heard of Patriot Power. That sales pitch sure comes close to the definition of snake oil! What do you think, Pete? |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Patriot power is known in the US as Muscle Power corporation, this is the product I'm using:
http://www.mpc-home.com/products-automotive-mt10.php they call it a metal treatment. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I call it snake oil and wouldn't bet my camshaft on it in a location where replacement parts are not easily attainable.
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Thanx HW for taking the words right out of my mouth. These products are good for repairs.When was the last time PCM agreed with the promoters of this product..........Hi Quality oil Is All That Is Needed...........
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13510 |
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I'd go with the Castrol GTX 15W-40 diesel that kapla has found readily available or use a proper additive.
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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what is it that you call snake oils?=
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