Head gasket direction question |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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if there were not any problems they wouldnt have evolved?
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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They evolved because people didn't,but that belongs in the off topic section
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MartyMabe
Grand Poobah Joined: February-21-2006 Location: High Point,NC Status: Offline Points: 3974 |
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Gordon,
Shoot me an E-Mail mtmabe@northstate.net |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Jason, how in the world did you see the marks you make on the push rods with a razor blade? I guess I've got to get some really powerful reading glasses or a magnifying glass. I can feel them with my fingernail, but I can't see to measure them!! I'm going to have to pull out a 300w halogen work light to see if that helps! I guess I can pull the rods out and then I could see them (since I'll have to pull the rocker arms to put in shims anyway). Maybe a fine point sharpie is better, just measure center to center? Otherwise this is going to take forever!
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Jllogan
Platinum Member Joined: May-18-2011 Location: canton, OH Status: Offline Points: 1728 |
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ya I guess, My eyes are still good so I had no trouble seeing them even without a worklight, I mean, you need to make a decent mark so slide it back and forth a bit. the sharpie could be a bit inaccurate due to the width but as long as you are consistent it should work.
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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I did go back and forth (which is why I can feel them with my fingernails). But yes, my eyesight isn't what it used to be (was great until 48, then downhill quick--good thing I can still see the buoys.....). Also, the pushrods have painted rings in the area, which makes marks harder to see. Well, with the light I may be okay. Otherwise, I just got some extremely fine point Sharpie's (probably only .020 thick), so measuring from center to center should be no problem. Won't get back to it until tomorrow evening, but hopefully it will go well enough that I might have a shot at completing everything and at least testing it with a hose this weekend (if that works, I'll get it in the water for an in-course test). But first things first; don't want to get ahead of myself! :-) It sounds like the valves on each head were consistant in their original preload. I'm hoping it will be the same. Of course, I'll measure each one, but it would be nice if all of them are more or less the same. So, with time, I would assume that the preload will lessen (with wear), so I would think that all things being equal, you'd want to put in a thinner shim (which equals more preload) than a thicker one if you are in the middle. That's my theory at the moment, but I'll reserve judgement until after I actually see and measure the current preload.
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Don't over think it Gordon,thats why you are given a range---
"Measure the distance between the two scribe marks, it represents the amount of lifter preload. If the lines are .020" to .060" apart you have proper lifter preload. If the lines are the same or less than .020" apart you have no or insufficient preload. If the lines are further apart than 060" you have excessive lifter preload. To bring your preload into tolerance, use one of the methods described in the next section if necessary, or call the Crane Tech Line for assistance (386/258-6174)." It's not like your setting a mechanical cam,as long as your in that range the lifter will take up the difference. As to the glasses thing,you got 8 more years without than I did |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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:-) I'm probably going to stop by the drug store and get a pair of 300 reading glasses (I use 150 now). That should be good for seeing the darn marks! Unbelievable how quickly I went from 20/20 to farsighted and astigmatism. I suspect (based on my very accurate measurement of feeling the two marks with my fingernail and the gap in between), that I'm a bit over .060 so would put in a .030 shim. But I suspect I should confirm my suspicion with the calipers. :-)
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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When I did the install I used lay out ink on the push rods. It's a bright blue color, or safety orange spray paint and a single edge razor blade. the lines really stand out well even for someone that sometimes uses 2.0 readers and a magnifying glass.
I'd be careful about the size "cut" in the push rod if you can feel it with a finger nail it's a stress riser and a place for fatigue failure to start as hours of run time build up. Our failure analysis guys see cyclic vibration failures everyday. My heads are from Clearwater with Cobra 1.7 rockers used single shims on all the valves, some .030 others .060 |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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:-) I'm probably going to stop by the drug store and get a pair of 300 reading glasses (I use 150 now). That should be good for seeing the darn marks! Unbelievable how quickly I went from 20/20 to farsighted and astigmatism. I suspect (based on my very accurate measurement of feeling the two marks with my fingernail and the gap in between), that I'm a bit over .060 so would put in a .030 shim. But I suspect I should confirm my suspicion with the calipers. :-)
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Where do you get lay out ink or safety orange spray paint? I'd like to pick some up tomorrow. Tks.
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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This reminds me (Billy mentioned it too) that I'm due for a valve clearance adjustment on the solid lifters in my Y block! There is some "clatter" but I've always been taught it's better to hear them than having them too tight. So, I'll pull the valve covers this spring and while I'm in there will do the Y block rocker arm shaft pluging on the one end. This is a common mod to the Y block valve train. Instead of all the oil running out the one end, it provides oil/lube to the rockers.
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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I painted the push rods an inch or 2 at the spot to be measured. It makes the marks stand out.
I used acetone and cheese cloth to clean them off when done. |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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So, I finally measured everything. The Crain instructions are misleading (I think) since it says to wait for the pushrod seats in the lifter to move back to the neutral position before marking. I see no "neutral" position. With the rocker arm torqued down, the bled-down lifter piston is at the bottom of travel (lifter spring compress), and when you back off the rocker arm bolt, the piston moves back up to the top of its travel (spring expanded). I don't understand why they'd call top of travel "neutral position" since that seems to mean "middle". Or am I missing something? When the lifters bleed down, they bottom out. Then, when the rocker arm bolt is loosened, the spring in the lifter pushed the push rod up to the top of the lifter piston travel. Or at least that is what I observed and measured.
The smallest gap I measured was about .075, with the largest being betweeen .100 and 110. So it looks like .030 shims for the ones that are .075 to .080, and .060 shims for everything over that. Just want to make sure I did the measurements correctly since I see no "neutral position". Hope to get the shims on, remeasured, and ready to put the intake manifold back on tomorrow evening. |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Okay, now I finally understand. My incorrect assumption last night was that when torqued down, the piston in the lifter was at the bottom of travel. I realize that is incorrect. It is anywhere between the top and bottom of it's travel (hopefully somewhere in the middle) depending on pushrod length. What I found on my heads is that I'm at .075 to .110, so I need to drop so I'm down in the .020-.060 range. I'll shim accordingly and hopefully be on my way to finishing this weekend. So ignore the last post. :-)
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21135 |
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I cant decipher what procedure youre following by your description. If you follow the Comp procedure and compare each lifter using marks taken when the cam is on the base circle (valve closed) then you'll be fine.
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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It all makes sense now. :-) Clarity of a new morning (and decent sleep). :-)
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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One quick question: Should I use lock tight on the valve cover bolts so that it hopefully doesn't leak later? Since you can't tighten the outside ones without pulling the exhaust manifolds, I'm wondering if I should use something (especially since the gasket is cork and the torque is only 3-5 ft/lb).
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5775 |
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I always use locktite on valve cover gaskets, hopefully the set you purchsed has the steel non crush inserts, I feel those are foolproof and eliminate over-tightening. If they don't just use the locktite and be careful not to over tighten, you probably have aluminum valve covers not stamped steel so you should be fine even with standard gaskets.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I got nitrile (rubber) gaskets fron NAPA, are resusable & didn't break the bank. No leaks so far at 250 hours.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Local NAPA store closed a year or two ago and the other places look at me like I'm nuts when I ask if there is anything other than cork. The Feltpro ones do have the metal inserts at the holes, so that's good. I'll locktite them down at the same time I use gobs of anti-seize on the exhaust manifold and riser bolts (getting those stubs out was a pain!).
Headed to the garage now. I might actually be able to test it today..... Wish me luck! |
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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slmskrs
Gold Member Joined: January-03-2012 Location: SF bay area, CA Status: Offline Points: 522 |
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Happy to say that I did my "dry" (hose) test with no issues! Only question is what/where is the SPOUT connector? I need to unplug it to do the timing. Any ideas?
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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