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Holley 4160, or edelbrock carb?

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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2010 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by horkn horkn wrote:



The primary float floats in a cup of gas.




can you give us a few more details? when you tested it was it postioned like it would be in the carb with the metal tangs horizontal? was the metal tang horizontal to the top flat surface of the float as it was floating or was it slightly below and at an angle relative to the top flat surface? if the attitude of the metal tang/attachment point wasn't such that it was at a downward angle to the opposite end of the float then it's bad, meaning if the metal was horizontal or slightly angled up it's bad, if it was angled down into the gas then it should be fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-09-2010 at 11:51pm
I put the entire bowl with the float still attached in the quart tub, and had the bottom of the bowl sit as close to flat as i could get it to go. The accelerator pump made it a little tricky to get the bowl 100% level, but it was very close if it was not totally level.

The float floated up as soon as I put enough gas into the container, and kept floating until the float topped out on the adjustment for the needle valve. I did not look to see the relative angle of the metal tang on the float, but it sure appeared to float fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2010 at 12:16am
I think you have the nitrophyl float, very odd it's bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2010 at 2:22am
Yes, that is the type of float I have. It definitely does not sink as it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-10-2010 at 9:57am
Tom, I'll be sending the parts to you today but I didn't get a chance to soak and clean. Seeing as you have a soak can I'll send the bowl as is with a new needle/seat, clean it up and try it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2010 at 2:28am
Not a problem Alan. YOU DA MAN!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2010 at 11:27pm
The parts came today. Thanks a lot Alan!

I should be able to clean the parts up and put them on tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-15-2010 at 6:29pm
Ok, well, it still drips. I re cleaned the metering block, front bowls of mine and Alan's, and all the associated parts. I tried almost every combo of my float, Alans float, Alan's bowl and mine.

I tried all 3 different needles and seats, and even the new one still had no effect on this.

I have a feeling this carb really is fooked and simply needs replacing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-15-2010 at 7:54pm
Really? You got a feeling? Quite astute of you.

For an exercise, reread your first sentence of your first post!
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-15-2010 at 11:57pm
Threadjack-
Gotta, what would make mine drip from one side only for a few minutes while warming up and then stop and work correctly?
Note: Choke is disconnected, and that side's air mixture screw is not fully responding (barely makes engine stumble all closed)

Need some headings on were to look, carb was recently cleaned, did not open the metering block plugs, what do you say?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2010 at 1:18am
Luchog i suspect one side's idle circuit is still boogared up, causing you to up the idle out of its normal position. Now its pulling too much from the transition slots to get the fuel.
Sounds like its on the edge of dripping. Vacuum will be a touch higher when warmed up that may be all it needs to stop.
Also check that all the air bleeds are not plugged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2010 at 1:45am
Few weeks ago I solved the dripping by adding some resin glue on top of the metering block plugs. But today the issue reappeared while warming on the dock. That's why I wondered about opening them up and cleaning on there too.

I'm almost positive it's iddling on the iddle circuit since, when not dripping, I cant see any fuel on top of the butterflies.

I'm iddling at 750rpms, so I get 600 in gear, If I lowered the iddle stop screw should I advance the engine a tad? I prefer being conservative on the advance, I'm around 8-9 degrees. (I think at 750rpm)

I will definitly check on the air bleeds, anything else to add? thanks for your help.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2010 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Luchog Luchog wrote:


I'm almost positive it's iddling on the iddle circuit since, when not dripping, I cant see any fuel on top of the butterflies.


That is presuming there are only two routes for the fuel.
But there are three.

Believe me, when the transitions slots are too exposed, they can cause enough venturi action in the metering block, the boosters will drip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2010 at 10:13pm
For S's and G's, I called Holley's tech hotline.

The guy told me that it is nearly impossible to really test a PV the way that has been told to me.

He also said that he would place money on the PV being bad, despite it appearing to hold pressure.

One last try with a new 6.5 PV, then I have exhausted all ideas.   At bare minimum I will have a spare PV.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-16-2010 at 11:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2010 at 1:16am
Tom, you may find it funny, but nobody really questioned the PV's condition. Sure some tail chasing has been done, but all of the chasing was prescribed, and I simply did what was told to do. ;) Also, as a result of the carb fun, I understand these carbs pretty well now.

I hope this is the issue so I can mention that all the floats, the needle valve, the carb cleaning, fuel pressure reg, and so on were not the issue.

I do have to say that at least people attempting to figure out the problem is much better than standing on the sidelines and making worthless comments while not helping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2010 at 2:03am
Tom, Gotta's the carb guru on the site, he pretty much understand this carbs all around better than anyone else around here, dont ask me how or why, he just does.

His advise is the one to follow, he understand them far beyond what you or I can from some some partial rebuilds, you ask, he explains, you learn, or you dont.

I pretty much think the power valve was well covered before, unless you didnt test it well. Regardless of what the Holley tech told you on the phone. I bet they have a "power valve tester" tool for them.


Gotta: went boating again today, venturi dripped at iddle on the dock even with the boat at op. temp. I lowered the iddle a tad and it still dripped. It did until I put the boat in gear at the dock for the first time. No more drips for the rest of the day.
This week will try to check the air bleeds, lower iddle and check timing at iddle, anything else? If it were the iddle is set too high, and working on the transition slots, wouldnt both sides drip? Or do I concentrate more attention to that sides air bleeds clean up? is it worth opening the metering block plugs for cleaning?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2010 at 10:37am
Luchog i've never taken a metering block apart like that so i just can't predict what you're in for.
   I've seen the uneven drip before and don't have a good explanation yet, but as with most things, it wouldn't begin to drip evenly. Float level, boat list, and minute differences in the carb all add up to one side dripping before the other does.
Best get a spare before you open the metering block, and it has to be the right part number.

Tom best of luck with your marriage, should be a hoot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2010 at 12:24pm
Tom, ask the holley tech if this is the correct tool for testing a PV!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2010 at 12:25am
Luchog, yeah, I would assume that mityvac would test it as well as could be tested.

The bottom line is that he mentioned that many times unelss very seriously checked over, that the PV will get tiny leaks in it. For a cheap part,   most people will simply replace it.

Tom, the "marriage" has been going great for about 7 years. Once legally this changes to be official, I don't foresee any changes with the operational standpoint of the union. :)
78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2010 at 10:48am
Just don't try to change her powervalve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2010 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by GottaSki GottaSki wrote:

Just don't try to change her powervalve.


LOL

I think that has tamper proof screws;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cisom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-27-2010 at 3:27pm
This may have been asked at one time or another, but does anyone know what the angle of the carb wedge for the PCM 351W with B/W 1:1 trans?
I've seen 7 and 12 degree wedges online. I've got a 1975 Southwind 20.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-28-2010 at 8:02pm
BTW, a new holley 6.5 PV fixed the dripping from the venturis.

It ran well today, and now it seem that it needs only to have the idle screws on the metering block adjusted while in gear on the lake.

I will be getting extra hours on it next weekend to make up for lost time, plus I am insured again now as of Sept 1st so I don't feel the need to hold back anymore.

Alan,

I have your primary bowl all cleaned up. I'll get it and the other parts back to you soon.
Thanks,
Tom
78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2010 at 12:59am
Good to hear.

However when Pv's diaphragm go bad they dump fuel under the butterflies, where the vacuum is, not out the boosters.
Or if they hang open it doesn't matter at idle because the mains are always open to the boosters.

I believe you nudged something back into order or the idle circuit in the metering block cleared up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horkn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2010 at 11:23pm
I put about 8 hours maybe a little more on the martinigue this weekend. It ran great, not one issue at all.

I put the old 13x14 federal prop on her and ran it, figuring it might have more top end than with the 4 blade 208 acme, but I don't think it did. I hit an indicated 47 mph with the repaired federal.

The new top end with GT40p heads and performer intake it really has a lot more snarl and you can tell the boat has a lot more power than it ever did before. It sounds really nice, making the guy with the new tige jealous. Well, he might also have been jealous knowing that his new 2010 boat won't probably be in drivable shape in 30+ years as well. LOL

It looks like I will get some boating in this weekend too.
78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade
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