Boats For Sale:
Camshafts |
Post Reply 
|
Page <123> |
| Author | |
Buckyr2 
Newbie 
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: August-12-2021 at 5:16pm |
|
Thank you everyone, i will keep the thread updated for results
|
|
 |
|
|
Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah 
Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2846 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 4:57pm |
|
Who woulda thunk…a bit of creative wrench turning. I’m glad KENO was able to solve the mystery. Things could have ended up much worse…
JQ
|
|
|
Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 3:53pm |
|
A couple of Arco starter numbers for your Reverse Rotation engine, they could be cross referenced to other brands 70201 new PMGR 70107 old style The PMGR is lighter, faster, cheaper, draws less current and only needs a small wiring change The old style is ............well, it's old  Maybe you have the original starter in your box of parts that the distributor was in 
|
|
|
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah
Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 2:27pm |
|
Sounds like a plan. Plenty of time to get it running by Monday......
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 2:18pm |
|
After a phone conversation with Bucky, we decided that the engine got some creative work done to it in the past.
It appears that it started life as a Reverse Rotation engine and someone put a Normal Rotation cam and distributor in it and stuck a normal rotation starter on it also. (they never changed the firing order though so they were trying to start it with the Reverse Rotation firing order) He also thought maybe the teeth on the original camshaft got destroyed by trying to get the wrong distributor gear to mate, that would really take some doing, but stranger things have happened. The previous owner never had it running before Bucky bought it. Imagine that  So his plan is to get a Reverse Rotation camshaft, some new lifters to go with it, and use the old Prestolite distributor with the Reverse Rotation gear that's on it right now. (Sorry Pete, but he wants to go electronic, he's too young to like points,so he'll get a Pertronix conversion for it) (Sorry Jonny, but it's a lot cheaper than a DUI distributor) Maybe he'll get one later Jonny He'll also get a Reverse Rotation starter so it'll spin the engine the right way and use the Reverse Rotation firing order 1 8 4 5 6 2 7 3 Based on the prop and also that it looks like the transmission has never been off the engine, he thinks that it's probably still oriented for Reverse Rotation. Also talked about was the raw water pump orientation. I think his plan sounds reasonable to get it running as a Reverse Rotation engine and it will keep the Gods of Reverse Rotation from unleashing their fury on him. He's a young guy, I'd mention his age, but it would make most of us feel like antiques, and he's had a fair amount of experience with 351W engines that rotate the way they were meant to go, but Reverse Rotation is all new to him. Now everybody say.........Good luck Buck, you'll get this all figured out
|
|
|
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah
Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 1:52pm |
|
You could remove the valve covers put number 1 cylinder on TDC and turn it over by hand and watch which valves start opening and in what order. Following the firing orders you'll know after a few turns if its standard or reverse.
 |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 1:08pm |
|
The motor is painted grey and says pcm on it, with the way the prop is set up theres no way its not a right hand rotation engine in my opinion, i forgot to mention in older posts that it has a new oreillys starter on it, i think what im going to do is get a reverse rotation starter and camshaft for it, everything on this engine looks factory and i dont see any signs of new gaskets anywhere? Does anyone disagree with that idea?
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 11:16am |
Another thing you should do is make sure your oil pump intermediate shaft turns and the oil pump isn't seized up. A seized pump could lead to your stripped gears and also a shaft that looks like a pretzel and doesn't turn. You could use a 351w priming tool and spin it backwards with a drill or some people use a 1/4 inch drive 5/16 socket and an extension to turn the shaft. Ideally you'd tack weld the socket to the extension so you don't have any chance of losing the socket in the sump. Some people take the "tacky" approach and duct tape the socket to the extension. It works fine.............till it doesn't and the socket ends up in the sump And another thing............you really don't know what you have for a rear main seal. Assuming it's a 1 piece seal, the seals are rotation specific and if the previous guy put a new cam in the original RR block and didn't change the seal to a normal rotation seal, you'll have a leak at the rear main seal. If it's a replacement block, you're probably OK seal wise but you don't know till you look and if it's apart enough to be looking at the seal, you might as well just replace it. Another thing would be checking your raw water pump orientation to be right for normal rotation. Like mentioned earlier, there are lots of things to consider |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 9:28am |
|
I will keep that in mind, thanks
|
|
|
|
|
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 9:25am |
Yes, you will need a LH prop. Also as Ken mentioned you'll need to confirm that the trans pump is indexed for a standard (LH) rotation engine. After you get the engine running shift the trans to forward or reverse and if nothing happens, then there's a good chance the trans isn't indexed. Without the proper index, the trans pump won't develope the pressure needed to activate the forward or reverse clutch packs.
|
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 9:19am |
|
So now that ive figured out what i need in regards to the camshaft and distributor, once i get it going can I change the propeller to work with the rotation of this engine?
|
|
|
|
|
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah
Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 7:51am |
Yes, it sure did chew it up. Here's Bucky's cam gear:  |
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 7:17am |
|
The engine has a normal rotation cam and distributor going by his pictures and since the rotor is turning CCW it's also a normal rotation starter.
Whatever it once might have been, it's right now a normal rotation engine that doesn't run, but it ran long enough to chew up the cam gear. The gear on a RR cam is cut the opposite of the gear on a normal rotation cam, that's why the distributor gears have to be different. All the cam lobes are arranged differently too, for the RR firing order.
|
|
|
|
|
GottaSki
Grand Poobah
Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-12-2021 at 5:08am |
|
Or the engine is revers but the starter is wrong? Lots of possibilities ahead
|
|
|
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 9:11pm |
|
Here's Bucky's transmission
It's a Borg Warner so the boat is an 88 not an 89.  So the prop and engine aren't matched as far as rotation. The next thing to worry about is whether the guy you bought it from, reindexed the transmission to work with the engine rotation, but that's a ways down the road right now. You have some work on your hands, but nothing that can't be resolved with some effort You'll be there before next summer PS Bucky, you have a PM |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:58pm |
|
This boat has never ran for me, ive only had it for about a month and I didn’t give a whole lot for it so im not freaking out about it, was hoping to have it on the water next summer so i have time to figure it out lol
|
|
|
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah
Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:45pm |
|
Yes. In a reverse rotation marine engine the crankshaft rotates in opposite direction of an automotive engine and therefore so does the camshaft. But the oil pump needs to run in the normal automotive direction or else it will not pump oil. The distributor drives the oil pump so the gear on the camshaft and the distributor is changed so that it turns the oil pump in the normal direction. That is also why the distributor runs in the same direction because that gear turns the distributor shaft which turns the oil pump. Clear as mud right?
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:43pm |
|
We're making progress Bucky
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:42pm |
|
Here are the pictures First one is the new and old distributors As mentioned before it's a Chinese automotive LH rotation distributor and from here the teeth look pretty worn  Second one is his prop, which looks like a RH, reverse rotation original prop  That just leads to more questions like Did you just buy this boat and has it ever run for you? I'm gonna guess that you bought somebody's unfinished project The only way to make the boat go forward with that prop on it would be to have the transmission in reverse and the reverse portion of the Borg Warner transmission won't last long at all moving the boat forward. Your 88 should have a Borg Warner transmission, could you verify that it does with the tag right near the dipstick or send another picture, this time of the transmission. If by chance you have a PCM 40A transmission, then the boat is an 89 and that engine and prop would make sense together . |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:16pm |
|
So would the difference in direction of the slants in the gears have anything to do with it?
|
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:14pm |
|
Heres the link to the photo
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0hi-1hBfr_pE-6QkOJudcN2Bw#Madill |
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:14pm |
|
Got pictures, will post in next 1/2 hour or so.
Your new distributor is a Chinese non marine automotive rotation unit for a normal automotive rotation engine and looks to have a steel gear that may have caused the problem. Old one is a reverse rotation Prestolite (original to your boat) |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:13pm |
|
The old distributor has a slant to the left if you’re holding the dizzy right side up and the newer distributor is slanted to the right being held in the same position, also the older gear is dull and looks like cast iron and the new one is smooth and shiny like in the picture you posted
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:09pm |
|
Here are a couple of gears, they both are normal automotive rotation. (LH rotation in the marine world}
The rough one on the left is cast iron, the smoother finished one is steel. Do your teeth slant in the same direction as these?  |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:09pm |
|
Pictures should be in youe email inbox keno
|
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 8:00pm |
|
Im looking at it from the front
|
|
|
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah
Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10662 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 7:53pm |
|
Send pictures anyways
Since you have a LH normal rotation engine your distributor gear on the newer distributor may be steel and not compatible with a camshaft that has a cast iron gear. The end result of that is gear damage to one or both gears. It sounds like somebody replaced or rebuilt your engine at some time over the years and it's normal rotation now.
|
|
|
|
|
GottaSki
Grand Poobah
Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3327 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 7:52pm |
|
You say clockwise, but what way are you looking at it?
Post a picture of the prop while you are at it |
|
|
"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 7:47pm |
|
The starter is turning the engine clockwise and the new distributor is turning ccw but it stops and starts because of the missing splines on the cam, they both have different directions of the way the splines are facing, one is ///// and the other is \\\\\, like stated above i have no idea how they got the new one in there if the splines are backwards
|
|
|
|
|
Buckyr2
Newbie
Joined: August-10-2021 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: August-11-2021 at 7:45pm |
|
Yes i did confirm, it is left hand rotation
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Buckyr2 wrote: