-burton

Bucky,

Just to clarify what Tom stated, the distributor turns the same dirction on ether a standard or reverse rotation 351. 

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/faq/rotate.htm" rel="nofollow - link

Once you're sure of that, things should be easier to figure out as far as parts etc. 

There's a reason your gear(s) got chewed up, you should have that figured out/straightened out before just putting new stuff in, to avoid a repeat.

You can't put a wrong rotation distributor in it. 

The gears won't mesh at all and it comes nowhere even remotely close to being seated right.

If somebody replaced the distributor or the gear and the gear wasn't located at the right place on the shaft you could have issues with wear.

The teeth on your right hand rotation distributor gear would look like this  \\\\\\\\

A normal rotation is the opposite  /////////

The camshaft gears are opposite from each other too.

What do you have for a distributor now ?

Ford started with the one piece seal in 83, so if your engine is original it's a one piece.

You can find the block casting number hiding above and behind the starter if you want to verify when the block was cast or if you have the transmission, bell housing and flywheel out of the way you can see the seal.

Click on the link for some seal info

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49344&title=1983-rear-main-seal" rel="nofollow - link

Did you confirm the engine rotation using the ling Ken provided?  One post you say LH and the another RH. Here the link again again:

https://bpi.ebasicpower.com/faq/rotate.htm" rel="nofollow - How Do I Determine My Engine Rotation? - eBasicPower

BTW, has the starter been changed lately?

I imagine you could take a couple of pictures of the distributors showing the gear on the new installed one and the gear on the extra older one. In both cases show the whole distributor so we tell what brand they are.

You may have a hard time posting them here on CCF (don't worry, lots of people have that problem)

If that's the case, then e mail them to     keno439@gmail.com and I'll have my squad of "picture posters" put them here on CCF and we'll solve this mystery.

PS from the info you've given already, the starter is turning the engine in the proper direction since the rotor is going counter clockwise.

Since you have a LH normal rotation engine your distributor gear on the newer distributor may be steel and not compatible with a camshaft that has a cast iron gear.

The end result of that is gear damage to one or both gears.

It sounds like somebody replaced or rebuilt your engine at some time over the years and it's normal rotation now.

The rough one on the left is cast iron, the smoother finished one is steel.

Do your teeth slant in the same direction as these? 

Your new distributor is a Chinese non marine automotive rotation unit for a normal automotive rotation engine and looks to have a steel gear that may have caused the problem.

Old one is a reverse rotation Prestolite (original to your boat)

Here are the pictures

First one is the new and old distributors

As mentioned before it's a Chinese automotive LH rotation distributor and from here the teeth look pretty worn

Second one is his prop, which looks like a RH, reverse rotation original prop

That just leads to more questions like

Did you just buy this boat and has it ever run for you? I'm gonna guess that you bought somebody's unfinished project

The only way to make the boat go forward with that prop on it would be to have the transmission in reverse and the reverse portion of the Borg Warner transmission won't last long at all moving the boat forward.

Your 88 should have a Borg Warner transmission, could you verify that it does with the tag right near the dipstick or send another picture, this time of the transmission.

If by chance you have a PCM 40A transmission, then the boat is an 89 and that engine and prop would make sense together .

It's a Borg Warner so the boat is an 88 not an 89.

So the prop and engine aren't matched as far as rotation.

The next thing to worry about is whether the guy you bought it from, reindexed the transmission to work with the engine rotation, but that's a ways down the road right now.

You have some work on your hands, but nothing that can't be resolved with some effort

You'll be there before next summer  

PS       Bucky, you have a PM

Whatever it once might have been, it's right now a normal rotation engine that doesn't run, but it ran long enough to chew up the cam gear. 

The gear on a RR cam is cut the opposite of the gear on a normal rotation cam, that's why the distributor gears have to be different.

All the cam lobes are arranged differently too, for the RR firing order.

Yes, it sure did chew it up. Here's Bucky's cam gear:

Yes, you will need a LH prop. Also as Ken mentioned you'll need to confirm that the trans pump is indexed for a standard (LH) rotation engine. After you get the engine running shift the trans to forward or reverse and if nothing happens, then there's a good chance the trans isn't indexed. Without the proper index, the trans pump won't develope the pressure needed to activate the forward or reverse clutch packs.

Another thing you should do is make sure your oil pump intermediate shaft turns and the oil pump isn't seized up.

A seized pump could lead to your stripped gears and also a shaft that looks like a pretzel and doesn't turn.

You could use a 351w priming tool and spin it backwards with a drill or some people use a 1/4 inch drive 5/16 socket and an extension to turn the shaft. Ideally you'd tack weld the socket to the extension so you don't have any chance of losing the socket in the sump.

Some people take the "tacky" approach and duct tape the socket to the extension.

It works fine.............till it doesn't and the socket ends up in the sump 

And another thing............you really don't know what you have for a rear main seal. Assuming it's a 1 piece seal, the seals are rotation specific and if the previous guy put a new cam in the original RR block and didn't change the seal to a normal rotation seal, you'll have a leak at the rear main seal.

If it's a replacement block, you're probably OK seal wise but you don't know till you look and if it's apart enough to be looking at the seal, you might as well just replace it.

Another thing would be checking your raw water pump orientation to be right for normal rotation.

Like mentioned earlier, there are lots of things to consider

It appears that it started life as a Reverse Rotation engine and someone put a Normal Rotation cam and distributor in it and stuck a normal rotation starter on it also. (they never changed the firing order though so they were trying to start it with the Reverse Rotation firing order) He also thought maybe the teeth on the original camshaft got destroyed by trying to get the wrong distributor gear to mate, that would really take some doing, but stranger things have happened.

The previous owner never had it running before Bucky bought it. Imagine that  

So his plan is to get a Reverse Rotation camshaft, some new lifters to go with it, and use the old Prestolite distributor with the Reverse Rotation gear that's on it right now. (Sorry Pete, but he wants to go electronic, he's too young to like points,so he'll get a Pertronix conversion for it) (Sorry Jonny, but it's a lot cheaper than a DUI distributor) Maybe he'll get one later Jonny 

He'll also get a Reverse Rotation starter so it'll spin the engine the right way and use the Reverse Rotation firing order 1 8 4 5 6 2 7 3

Based on the prop and also that it looks like the transmission has never been off the engine, he thinks that it's probably still oriented for Reverse Rotation.

Also talked about was the raw water pump orientation.

I think his plan sounds reasonable to get it running as a Reverse Rotation engine and it will keep the Gods of Reverse Rotation from unleashing their fury on him.

He's a young guy, I'd  mention his age, but it would make most of us feel like antiques, and he's had a fair amount of experience with 351W engines that rotate the way they were meant to go, but Reverse Rotation is all new to him.

Now everybody say.........Good luck Buck, you'll get this all figured out  

A couple of Arco starter numbers for your Reverse Rotation engine, they could be cross referenced to other brands

70201 new PMGR

70107 old style

The PMGR is lighter, faster, cheaper, draws less current and only needs a small wiring change

The old style is ............well, it's old 

Maybe you have the original starter in your box of parts that the distributor was in

 

JQ

Sounds like an Allstate commercial 

We won't call it a success until Bucky gets this all figured out and running

A number of places show it out of stock, but here's a link that seems to have it in stock ( it doesn't say it's out of stock anyways) and has a better price than most anybody else

http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ml-24209" rel="nofollow - link to cam

and since you need lifters too, here's another link

http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/vl-ht900" rel="nofollow - link to lifters

It's a good outfit to deal with

Ok Gary 

Bucky try Cam Research Corp, see link

Me and Gary like phone calls for stuff like this

http://www.camresearchcorp.com/" rel="nofollow - link

The last post I found of someone on this forum installing this cam was in 2006, but they liked the cam so the specs might help.

Wow, camshafts are becoming very hard to get.  I just searched and could not find an available Reverse Rotation Camshaft anywhere.

FYI:  I just waited 8 months to get the camshaft for a Chevy Small block std rotation.  I hear Comp Cams has something like 20,000 cams on backorder due to COVID employee shortages.  If we cut back the government handouts a lot of people will be motivated to go back to work!  Sorry, should not get political.

 

They must have had a reason to require the manufacturers to have ignition protected stuff 

And here you are telling Bucky he can swap gears to put one in his boat.

In his case it would be a little more involved than a gear swap. The Chinese distributor in his earlier photo has a 2 piece slip fit shaft and the gear is a bit different than his Prestolite gear..

The picture is the same brand distributor that I took out of a friends boat a few years ago because it wasn't marine rated.

It worked good, but well you know a few stray gas fumes, a sparking distributor that's not ignition protected and it's not a pretty outcome.

I might be a little curious also as to what year and model of Supra  came with a RH rotating engine?

Early years they had LH engines and props, then when the PCM 40A came out, they had LH engines and RH props and then they went to LH engines and LH props again when they changed engine suppliers

I have not seen an open path to open spark in a closed and sealed distributor  so yes I have run 3 automotive distributors in boats now.  In my brothers Supra we swapped the gear at install, I was thinking it was for rotation but I may have swapped for compatibility, meaning I did not trust the gear I saw on the new unit to work on our cam.

I would not use an automotive starter on a boat.

I do religiously run my blower in our boat.

CS1057M  351W Marine Reverse Rotation Cam  18456273 fire order

Valve Lift Intake:  .444  Exhaust:  .452

Duration at .050   206/221    @ .006  284/304

Lobe center   115*

That is what the book quotes for this 351W Marine Cam

Hope it helps.

Mark

 

GM HEI distributors had/have open vents in the bottom of the housing that don't have the appropriate spark arrestor screens and the area where the lever from the vacuum advance mechanism passes through the body isn't sealed or screened....there's an open gap.

That's why they weren't USCG certified.

Unless he has a Spitfire, but they're kinda not too roomy and closed bow.

Good looking boats

Click on link for some Water Ski Mag info, pages 123 thru 127  

http://books.google.com/books?id=QyE2AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow - link

I had a used cam too, according to the UPS people it should show up at Bucky's on Tuesday 

Save it for the next guy that needs one  

I also have a stock GT-40 cam with about the same amount of hours would need polished but has the lifters. 

It was a Reverse Rotation camshaft and somebody did their best to stuff a distributor for a normal rotation engine in that hole.

"I just ain't seen nuthin like that before" were the first words that came to mind.

Probably stuck it in as far as it would go and pushed a little harder and bumped the engine over at the same time. Probably repeated that move a handful of times too.

JQ