Seeking advice on 1968 Barracuda Rebuild/Repower |
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blammie
Groupie Joined: June-27-2010 Location: Toledo Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: August-30-2020 at 12:41pm |
So I have a '68 Barracuda, completely stock, everything is there, with a Chrysler 318 setup. I bought the boat in about 2008 and ran it for about 5-6 years before I overheated, blew a head gasket, and cracked a head. When I had the heads and intake off, assessing the damage, I noticed the cam was badly scored. I dried it out and resembled with new gaskets. It ran, but was leaking on one of the heads. I ended up winterizing it, and mothballing it. Figuring I was at a point that I should rebuild or Re power I turned my attention to my Chris Craft, which needed everything, but was a more practical boat for me at the time. Now The Chris Craft is about done, and it's time for the Barracuda to get some love. My question is this. What do you think? I have options, but am not sure which route I should take. Cosmetically, I am in pretty good shape. Interior is fresh My stringers are in good shape (I think). I going to drop some cash into my gauges and have them rebuilt, but mostly I want to repower for now and get her back on the water. Option1. I could put a new long block in. That's the most expensive option, but represents the least amount of risk. Option 2. I have a friend with a 70's Dodge Ram. he bought for the axles. It's got a 318. He says the motor runs good and I can have it for $200-300. I'd need a cam, and its a motor with a 70kish miles, but I trust his judgement. He's a good wrench. Option 3. I'm fortunate to have good salvage options here, near the south shore of Lake Erie. A trusted salvage guy says he had a good running 360 that I he's offering for $900. This may be a good option, since its already marine, and I think I will probably get the carb and all the ancillary parts that I wont get with along block, but I have no idea how many hours are on it. It's also a newer vintage 318, and I'm not sure if there are differences that might create issues with installation. Option 4. I could pull my motor and have it rebuilt. I really haven't looked into the cost of this but assume it will be similar to a long block price. What do you think? I'm not to deep into this boat. I gave $1300 for it, and put another $1500 into the interior. I have good bones to work with. I feel like I still have some head room to put some money into it, without just pissing it away, but don't see any sense in spending more than I have to. Any thoughts would be appreciated. How do you feel about used motors? I see risk. Does it effect resale value being original vs swapped motor? Not that I'm looking to sell, but I'm kind of "numbers matching" right now. I Like the idea of having a completely original boat that is nearly as old as me, but mostly want to make sure she's reliable. Thought would be greatly appreciated. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Brett,
It sure looks like it's in fantastic shape especially with the new interior. Regarding the engine, keep in mind the original is a reverse rotation and I highly recommend keeping it RR.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2843 |
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Beautiful boat. Hopefully you can get the parts for a rebuild. As Pete said, it’s a reverse rotation engine so an automotive engine won’t simply drop in properly. If you need heads, block, intake and similar, an automotive donor engine is an option. The cam may be a bit of a challenge to find if one is needed. Several cam specialists can make you a RR cam but it won’t come cheap.
JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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One thing I am not familiar with is how Chryslers built RR engines. Did they use a RR cam or did they use a gear set instead of a standard rotation timing chain and sprockets? I' sure one of our Mopar gearheads like Zach will know.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2843 |
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Good point, Pete. I rebuilt a 318 back in the mid 1970’s but I can’t remember much...hell, at my age I’m just happy to remember to zip down first.
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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blammie
Groupie Joined: June-27-2010 Location: Toledo Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Ok, so I hear ya say, rebuild what I have. My gut was also telling me that. Let me ask this. I'm a pretty solid wrench, but I've never attempted a rebuild like this from the ground up before. I don't know what I don't know about building motors. Is this a project I can take on over the winter and get right? or do I farm it out? I'm hands on, and would prefer to do it myself, but my lack of experience worries me.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2843 |
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This may not be the best project to learn on as far as engine rebuilds go. What you may want to do is to pull the engine yourself and strip it down to long-block configuration. Then you take the long-block with all the associated new parts over to a good machine shop and have them do the heavy lifting on the rebuild. Then you pick up a fully rebuilt long-block and install all the accessories and put the engine back in the boat yourself. Sort of a hybrid approach where the experts do what they do best.
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No reason why you could not if you have the tools,you are basically just assembling it . You first need a machine shop you can trust to do the "heavy" work-checking the block for cracks,bore,deck surface etc if needed,checking the crank and doing head rebuilds installing brass core plugs assembling pistons to the rods setting ring gaps etc. As you assemble it you are basically checking their accuracy - ring gaps,bearing clearances,rod end clearances,crankshaft end clearance etc. Maybe to get a idea whats involved is to get books like these- How to rebuild the Small Block Mopar by William Burt. I have in the past used the Ford versions of these type of publications which are more helpful than the factory's manuals.
JQ's method is good as well just have to make sure they understand marine engines and reverse rotation too.There may be some Mopar tricks that us Ford and Chevy guy's don't know
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93/70 ccpb
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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i have some parts from a 66 chrysler polyhead,cam, pistons, heads, pumps.pulleys dont know if they will match up with a 68 your more than welcome to take a look in streetsboro ohio,i thought you were over in pit area,pm me for directions
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what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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93/70 ccpb
Senior Member Joined: March-05-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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ill inventory on monday for you,
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what you dont want to hear from jbear and bill.you cant get in the boat till you get your minute,and they throw you back in water!
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I have heard that not much will interchang from the poly's to the LA series. I may be wrong??
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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RR used a timing chain just like the normal rotation engines. They have a camshaft cut for reverse rotation. By the way Pete, even if they used gears and no chain like a RR Chevy, you still need a camshaft ground for reverse rotation, otherwise all your timing events are all screwed up and it'll never run There's not a reverse rotation engine out there that that uses the same camshaft as it normal rotation counterpart
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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Like Gary said, buy a book, read it a couple times and decide if you're comfortable doing it yourself or at least semi comfortable Nobody was born knowing how do rebuild an engine And a good machine shop like he said too. Most of them, it seems if they tell you it'll be a month it'll be 3 or 4
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Counter viewpoint: Buy used engine. Put RR cam in & use your accessories. How many hours are you going to put on it in next few years? If not many, it should do what you want.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10650 |
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What's the counter point to a counter point called? He should stock up on oil and his favorite bilge cleaning soap if he does this. The early cranks have those wick lines to worry about. Later ones .........good luck finding a RR rear main seal. His friends 70's engine will be a 2 piece rear main seal with wick lines on the crank for normal rotation. So he might as well swap the crankshaft too, then he might as well orient the pistons for RR in a Chrysler. It just keeps getting more and more involved with reversing that auto engine |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I would worry about oil control running a crank backwards Chris,I wonder if they used something like a Ford. The PO of my Mustang did exactly that but the upside was that the oil coated stringers were preserved. Started before I had to assist with dinner
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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points taken Didn't think about wick lines.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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frydaddy
Newbie Joined: August-26-2004 Location: Fairview, Texas Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I was in your shoes with my 1966 Barracuda, but I had the poly 318. No parts. I re-powered using a Mercruiser 233. My main goal with the re-power was easy replacement parts and maintaining the original doghouse.
My advice is, if you have the non-poly 318, have it rebuilt. Also, you could look for a running takeout. My found my Mercruiser on Craigslist for $250. It was a complete setup-up with extra parts I was able to sell. Good luck and also good looking Barracuda, Chris |
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Frydaddy
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Chris, Was it a reverse rotation engine? If not, how does the Cuda handle?
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frydaddy
Newbie Joined: August-26-2004 Location: Fairview, Texas Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Yes, it is a reverse rotation. I am here in the Dallas, TX area and found it down in south padre. It was used in a Dolphin tour boat. They had both right and left hand engines and I grabbed the right. I turned it into a vacation for the family, pulling my trailer, returning with a Mer cruiser. When I told my story they thru in a Dolphin tour for the family. Good times.
The engine had a freshwater kit on it as it was used in the gulf. The manifolds were rusted out, replaced them with interceptor log manifolds allowing me to fit everything under the doghouse. It also came with a 1.52:1 velvet drive that I have been trying to sell for years. The Barracuda runs great. The poly was 230 hp the Mercruiser is 233 hp, so very similar. If anything the Mercruiser is lighter. It has the original prop and runs top speed 43mph. |
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Frydaddy
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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I’m more worried about your zip UP afterwards Beauty boat I’ve been pondering Rebiuld 318 someday too. Definitely keep RR Mopar 318, you can use all components (ei..alt,h20 pump, etc .. plus originality Long block $3000 (China parts ??) Rebiuld by local top shelf shop $4500 but little higher compression and warranty I just like the fun of working with cool old engine builder, he can help with any tuning issues too You did so well on boat price you can afford to do right |
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