New to me 72 Skier |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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If you start the engine with a squirt of gas down the carburetor , it should fire and the pump will prime itself pretty easily. It may take 2 or 3 attempts for it to prime and keep pumping. Are you using clear tubing on the tank to fuel pump connection so you can see if it's sucking some gas? Or do your primer bulb suggestion to make sure the suction line is full before starting. If the pump(s) are bad, ease of rebuilding depends on what kind of pump it is and how old. An old original to the engine Carter..............pretty straightforward. A new Carter.............not so much An AC dual diaphragm pump, you can't buy a kit but Then and Now Automotive will rebuild it for you. A picture of the pumps would be good. There shouldn't be any oil slinging around the bellhousing. It can drip out the very bottom because it's not meant to be able to hold any leakage from the engine or transmission. Is it engine oil? Does the transmission have ATF in it or maybe 20W engine oil You have the rear main seal and a couple of oil gallery plugs and the big plug at the back of the camshaft that could leak engine oil. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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All old pumps. We have quite a few. Will take pics next time. Def a few old carters. We have an in-line filter on a short fuel line and could see that gas wasn’t coming. Line is only 2 ft total. I sucked through it and got gas to the filter. Sounds like a rebuild may be necessary. The one on the boat has a glass bowl on the bottom with what seems to be a filter in it.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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While we have more I took the info I could find off of some of the pumps. Think they are all carter. One is a Carter 988. One is a Carter 6. The last just says 41414.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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And the pics:
First is our thought for matching the orange of the skier. Think we got a pretty good match on a premix. Next are pics of the pumps. Take a look and let us know thoughts on rebuilding. I have done a little searching for rebuild kits. Just not sure of their condition and or the right rebuild kit(s). Will start with one, hopefully someone knows the right kit for one of these pumps. Can the pumps be soaked in carb cleaner? |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Then and Now Automotive. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Check with Reid and Brad on the orange vinyl, ones been identified to match.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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That color chart is for gelcoat. Want to see if we can accomplish gel before spending $ and time on the other biggies like stringers and upholstery. Hoping to order gel soon.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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You might be better off having a good gel guy tint some for you. The chances of finding something off the shelf that won’t be a noticeably different shade is slim to none. But if it’s cheap then there’s little harm in trying it. Gel repair is pretty easy and can always be redone if you don’t like the match... you’re only out the time and effort.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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We are shooting the whole thing so a close match is great.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Wow. How much of the old gel are you taking down to avoid having too much thickness?
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Oh my. Consider a pepper-flake of crap will clog the idle fuel orifices and require the carb to come apart and wreck your outing, I'd throw the pumps and anything that caught their cooties away. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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Looking at your fuel pump pictures, the pump in the picture with a left hand holding a rusty metal fuel line is an AC dual diaphragm pump.
Then and Now can rebuild it, they won't sell the parts to do it yourself. Mille1sj had them do one recently and seems plenty happy with it. The others are Carter single diaphragm and look like oldies that can be rebuilt. Click on the link below for more info and there are some pictures of the newer Carter that maybe somebody can get apart and back together again, and also the older Carter that you can get a kit for and do yourself or have Then and Now do it for you. A few other places sell the kit for the Carter also. link. A good trip through a bead blaster after it's all disassembled will tell you if the Carter's are gonna survive since the kit has everything you need except the housings |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Why not buy a new Carter Marine or PCM? Originality?
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Leaning towards new but wanted to explore rebuild to save money, learn something and use the original part.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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The new carters (which is what PCM sells at a markup) have not been great as of late. Also not rebuildable.
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Anyone try the Airtex? Saw it in another thread. On sale now for $40 prime on amazon.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Smart money would say get a Carter from Skidim. They have a reputation to consider- if too many junk ones are coming back they will find a different supplier. Call and ask Vince if they are still problematic. They are all made overseas now that's why I rebuilt my original
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11029 |
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It's the same construction as a new Carter |
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jarrell001
Newbie Joined: February-27-2017 Location: 27104 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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“Wow. How much of the old gel are you taking down to avoid having too much thickness?”
Good question. We sanded aggressively with 180 grit. We are going though the gel in a few places, but by no means have we sanded all of the gel off. The whole boat seams to have been sprayed fairly thin at the factory. I assume you are concerned about spider cracking? I’m listening is you have any opinions on the matter. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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No opinions other than strongly suspecting that overall thickness may lead to cracking due to the lack of strength in the gel. Some say most/all the old needs to come off? Just make sure you do your homework.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Mine was so bad (as you can see) that I took it all the way down. Then filled the worst spots and then flooded it with a Polyester primer. Sanded again and then sprayed gel coats to proper thickness. Some have rolled the gel on. You are going to have to sand the new gel down to a smoothness that you can start buffing anyway. Horrible labor intensive job. We are applying everything backwards as the gel goes onto the mold first at the factory then the layup process begins. Good luck |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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For clarity: I am by no means a gel coat expert here. Kind of a "jump in the lake and learn to swim later" type guy. Gel coat repair people earn every cent of the fee.
You also need a gun with large enough nozzle to spray this stuff. Orange peel is inevitable. And don't try to thin the gel down much or it will loose its integrity. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Duratec hi gloss additive is your friend here, check it out.
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jarrell001
Newbie Joined: February-27-2017 Location: 27104 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Duane in Indy - we have not sanded anything close to the amount you removed. I'd be curious to know what tools and what grit level you used to sand that deeply? We will be spraying with a G100 gel coat gun. I sprayed some test panels from a junk boat, and they turned out very nice. The real challenge will be even coverage and working in small batches of gel.
Gary S - I've read briefly about the dura tech hi gloss additive, but have not tried it. It looks like it thins things out significantly. Our next step is to find someone who will let us use their paint booth. We may have found one in Denton, NC and may know tomorrow if it will work out. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Seriously reconsider using that dump gun - you guys are not spraying in a mold you are more or less painting with thicker paint. Booth is not necessary if it becomes to big a deal to find one of those temp garages/carport would work- your going to be buffing and sanding anyway
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Grabbed the Airtex pump as it was on sale for ~$40. Will give it a shot. Put it on the engine and she fired up. Didnt get to run for long bc no water but it sounded decent for the short run on the stand. Still leaking oil out of those two back holes. Looking like we will have to get a new rear main seal...sound right?
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Compression testing type of day
1-110psi 2-85 3-110 4-105 5-110 6-55 7-105 8-115 Still a runner or have to rebuild? Any troubleshooting tips to determine issue? Rings or is this just a bore and rebuild? First time down the engine path. |
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21168 |
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Next step is to re-perform wet and see if 2 and 6 come up appreciably.
The idea is to try and discern between valve sealing issues and blow by on the rings. Valve issues can be solved with a head recondition vs bottom end rebuild. |
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samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 972 |
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Wet? In the water will make a difference. How? Or will the load make the difference. I like the potential of less rebuild.
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78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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Wet Compression test would involve adding a teaspoon of oil in the spark plug hole and doing a re test. The oil will seal up bad rings and give higher compression with a wet test. If your issue is bad valves the oil does not help and compression will remain mostly the same.
An engine that has sat for long periods will have some rust on the cylinder wall and even on the valve stems. If your wet test takes your cylinder with 55 PSI and it jumps to 100 PSI you know the rings are leaking badly. I would hold off on a compression test till you run it for a while and let the rings clean up the cylinder walls and the valves pound on the seats and hopefully seat for you, sometimes the compression will jump back up if you are really lucky. As is you have two weak cylinders that need to get better or be repaired. A leak down test could help determine if the rings and valves are good. It will even show if you have an exhaust valve or intake valve issue but for now the wet test will help see what you have. Was this a good engine when it was parked? |
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