91 Nautique Excel no reverse

Everyone says to send their transmissions to Eric Lavine at Fantastic Finish Marine. He's on this site or you could look up the business directly. He should be able to fix the tranny.

common problem, but from what i can see on the clutch splines, it appears your damper is bad, so replace your damper also....when you say rebuilt......what is your definition

Eric, what is the part you are referring to as the "damper" I don't see that part listed in the service manual. Also, why are broken clutch discs a "common" problem?

As for the rebuild, I replaced the clutches, plates and seals and all of the pressure plate springs. I also disassembled the rest of the trans and cleaned and inspected the rest of the parts. Everything else in the transmission looked great, the forward clutch discs barely showed any wear but replaced them since the rebuild kit came with new clutches and plates. There were no signs of over heating and the bearings were all in perfect condition.

Thanks

Well I have been rebuilding automotive automatic transmissions for about 30 years now and the way you do that is by replacing the parts inside them. The rubber seals become hard and brittle due to heat and hydraulic pressure drops in the cylinders causing the clutch plates to slip which causes more heat and so on and so forth until the trans fails. What I didn't understand, and thank you for clarifying is that the culprit might be the damper between the engine and the trans which wouldn't really means it wouldn't matter who 'rebuilt' the transmission it would most likely fail again if the damper were the cause and not replaced.

Onestop- I hope all works out well for you.   Trbenj has talked about the best deal on dampers being from Ebasic power. I would look at their website for a replacement.   

- Pete, just curious, what would your definition of a rebuild be? did I miss something?

from all that has been said about Eric here, It sounds like he is a great tech and a well respected site contributor , but he can't really be the only one that can rebuild a transmission??? (since there is not an "I'm not trying to be a butt" emoticon, I guess I'll just type it)...
here is why I ask...   FFM is a significant distance from me... shipping on my trans is going to be ~100 each way. Certainly I would get references from the MC and SN dealers before going to someone local, but with the shipping being 25% additional cost to the rebuild, I'm struggling with the why do I need to send my WA trans to Brunstucky country, especially since my boating budget is very tight... I'd rather spend the dollars on gas than UPS... now if FFM was an hour or two up the road, this wouldn't be a hard decision for me.

I would guess that OSJ from CA might be in the same position?

clean and paint.....

Dreaming wrote:     Pete, just curious, what would your definition of a rebuild be? did I miss something?

Just a Gary mentioned, it's not just putting new parts inside. FFM though all the years of rebuilding has learned there are critical dimensions that need to be checked. These are items that are not in the manual. You can put as many new parts inside as you want but how long will it last before it gets torn up since a part has worn out of spec. The CC dealer up north "rebuilds" their trans's. I know one person who had them do the job and the "rebuild" lasted 2 months!! Here at the plant we know a seal will not last if the mating surface is worn. I have a 4" shaft out now being rebuilt because a new seal didn't stop the leak from a gearbox. It's getting built up with chrome and reground. I personally would send my trans to FFM and I've rebuilt several engines over my 40 years of playing around with boats.

I searched but couldn't find that one thread that was a great example of a trans "rebuild" This member on the west coast had taken the trans to a supposedly good marina and had the trans done. He got it back and within hours it went out on him again. The marina "rebuilt" it again and again the same thing happened. He sent it off to FFM and it was interesting what they found inside. The marina was just throwing rebuild kit parts in it!!

eric lavine wrote: clean and paint.....

aka "Krylon Rebuild"

So the boat only has 460 hours on it. Would a damper really fail with so few hours?

1StopJeff wrote: So the boat only has 460 hours on it. Would a damper really fail with so few hours?

Yes especially since the OEM is on the cheap end. When replacing, go with the Sachs brand. Ebasic Power has the best deal. They are around $90.00. The damper is matched to the spline count on your trans. However, since you have a 91, I think your are stuck with the PCM damper.

Great info. I will check it out. I talked to Vince at FFM yesterday and he pretty much said the same thing, the damage could be related to the damper plate but it could have to do with several other factors as well and since I have had the boat such a short time it is hard to tell.

Jeff,
Yes, the Walters can also be a problem. From a mechanical engineering side, they are poorly designed in my opinion. Walters went cheap and used a U joint instead of bevel cut gearing to change the angle of the output shaft. They also, in order to keep the case size small went with the bare minimum on sizing the internal components. The bearings for example are the best they can get their hands on. The use of a U joint sets up horrible harmonics due to the cordial RPM change every 90 degree revolution of the U joint. These harmonics caused by the U joint really pounds the bearings out in a relatively short time. I wonder why CC doesn't use Walters anymore!!! Your best bet is to rebuild the V drive as well.
For bearings, go to your local bearing distributor and not Walters. Walters will absolutely rape you for the "special" bearings. You will not be able to sit down for weeks!!!

Thanks for the info. I found this in the Walter Manual:
-- EXCESSIVE NOISE IN V-DRIVE --
A clatter or rattle in the V-Drive at low RPM is due to drive-line related vibrations, such as the overriding of the propeller during the compression stroke of the engine. This noise may be reduced by tuning up the engine and increasing the idle speed for smoother operation.

My boat is idling at about 550rpms in gear, is that too low?

that seems to be a velvet tranny so you need a velvet drive damper plate....

Thanks Eric. What should the target idle RPMs be for in gear and out of gear?