Poor Man's GT40 Diagnosis |
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broden
Newbie Joined: June-22-2014 Location: Lunenburg, MA Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I downloaded your spreadsheet on the GT-40.
I have a 1994 Hydrodyne grand sport, it has the GT-40 pro boss, great engine. These Nautique forum's are the best place I can find about the GT-40 and the Hot start problem. I've had the boat about 20 years, maybe the last 7 it's had the hot start problem. I've tried a few things on the spreadsheet before and will try to go through the rest and hopefully get it fixed. Thanks BB |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10699 |
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A few things for you
First you really should start your own thread instead of tacking on to this one. This one is supposed to be for listing solutions. Cut and paste this into a new thread Second It sounds like you made things worse (but more consistent) with your kill switch replacement, Why don't you bypass it temporarily with a jumper wire and see how things act Here's a thread in the link down below with lots of info that won't all pertain to your problem but it's informative. His problem was the ECM, hopefully yours is easier and cheaper. There's a GT 40 service manual in the reference section that you may or may not know about. You mention both fuel pump relays being replaced. It's really one ECM relay and one relay for the fuel pumps, but you can find this in the manual It takes 2 good ones for the engine to run, it sounds like you have that covered with 2 new ones that didn't help your problem link |
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Chicoman88
Newbie Joined: May-10-2018 Location: Idaho Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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I bought a 98' Ski Nautique this year that had not been used much in recent years. The seller had it de-winterized before putting it up for sale and said it ran great (of course). I got it and the second time I had it out it died on me after it had been run for a while and warmed up. Then I started it back up and it immediately died. Started it again, it did its initial up-rev and died again. Then on the 3rd or 4th time it started and kept running like normal.
I thought maybe it was bad fuel from sitting for quite some time and not being used much, so I topped it off with new fuel and added sea foam for the next trip out. It went without incident. A couple weeks later we were headed out again and backed down the ramp to launch and the boat would start, do its rev-up and then immediately die. Repeat about 6 times. It finally started and ran like normal so we headed across the lake to our spot (about a 5-10 minute drive). About 100 yards away from the beach it cuts out and dies. Then I re-start it, it starts, revs up and immediately dies. Repeat 6 or 8 times. Then it starts and runs like a champ until the end of the day, when the cycle repeats again. The problem is sporadic and impossible to duplicate. So far I've replaced both fuel relays and the fuel filter but couldn't get out before the weather turned to see if that fixed it. Both fuel pumps seem to be running fine as you can hear them fine when you turn the key. I'm pretty confident it's not the kill switch. Another notable trait is that it seems to rev higher and longer than it should upon initial start-up, and takes a while to come back down to normal running rpm. I'm not sure if that's related or not. I know the GT-40's, and most others, do rev a bit on start up, but it seems higher and longer than normal. Other options I'm checking into further are the anti siphon valve and the idle air control Update: I went to get my boat ready for summer today after it was winterized. I replaced the emergency kill switch today just in case it was an issue too. Put new belts on and went to start it up and... it started and revved up for a second and turned itself back off. After repeating that several times it would not stay running. It starts, revs for a second and shuts itself off. I replaced the battery terminals and put a new connection on the wire coming off the positive terminal, as I’d heard that was a common problem (called the stay run wire or something like that). Still no luck, it continues to start and then shut itself off. I checked the fuel pressure, its at 40 when it pressures up and goes to 45 when it fires and then goes back to 40. Seems like maybe the computer is shutting it off. It doesnt have a crank position sensor. Any other suggestions? |
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Blamey
Gold Member Joined: August-18-2015 Location: White Plains,NY Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Got any more details, this may be my issue. Low battery, jumped off another battery. Cranks but doesn't start. |
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96 Super Sport
Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme |
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roymiz
Newbie Joined: July-17-2016 Location: Flarda Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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No start (OK, it'd start 1 out of 50 tries) caused by bad cell in the battery.
Even when jumped off another battery, the bad primary battery (only have a cranking battery in my boat) was wreaking havoc on the fuel delivery in some way. Thought for sure, it was fuel pump/relay related... Nonetheless, worth sharing... |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Ok, I updated the spreadsheet.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10699 |
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That 10 way connector is really an 8 way connector and it seems like putting something in the spreadsheet about the manual being wrong in reference to the connector would be a good idea too. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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No start condition solved by cleaning/repairing engine 10 way harness as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42231&PN=1&title=diagnosing-no-start-gt40 Edited: I added in the No Start column and created a new row Corroded 10 (or 8?) Way Engine Electrical Harness Updated Spreadsheet |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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I never got around to logging this one. Intermittent loss of power at speed fixed by replacing distributor. The base problem was a loose/dislodged PIP Hall Effect Sensor.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41558&PID=538985#538985 I logged it under the Distributor Complete Rebuilt Row and split between the Hesitation and Reduced Top Speed Columns Updated Spreadsheet |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Engine surging solved by properly installing the correct spark plugs as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41778&PID=537476#537476 Logged in Rolling Idle column on Full Ignition Tuneup row. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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No power in gear fixed by replacing faulty fuel injectors as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41742&PID=537812#537812 Logged in the Hesitation column in the Fuel Injectors row on the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Ok, I'll amend my post and the spreadsheet.
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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On the skip on acceleration the plugs were Platinum and looked brand new, I really think the module fixed the problem. Just my opinion.
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Skip/hesitation on acceleration solved by replacing spark plugs and TFI module Edit; TFI module was the fix as mentioned below as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41734&title=gt-40-slight-skip-on-acceleration I logged in the spreadsheet (same link as above) under the hesitation column. I attributed half to spark plugs and half to TFI module. Edit: Logged just under TFI |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Lack of power after overheat fixed by replacing fouled/damaged spark plugs as discussed here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41631&title=need-some-gt40-help-gents Logged on spreadsheet in broken spark plug row and split in the columns for Hesitation and Reduced Top Speed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Bogging under full throttle solved by replacing anti-siphon valve and braided fuel line between Low Pressure Fuel Pump and FCC.
As described here: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41488&title=2001-gt40-bogging-under-full-throttle Updated spreadsheet under "Reduced Top Speed" column. Gave half credit to anti-siphon and braided fuel line: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Low RPM misfire fixed by replacing broken/damaged spark plug as described here:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40837&PID=526898#526898 Added broken spark plug rows to spreadsheet. Same spreadsheet link. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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A second/separate issue solved in the same thread as above.
Replacing a low pressure fuel pump solves a hot restart issue as described in this specific post by by mtguy: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41292&PID=531631#531631 Spreadsheet Updated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Fuel Pump (FCC) not priming because of loose battery connections.
As described here: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41292&title=fcc-issue-where-to-start I added a new row in the spreadsheet for: Tightened Loose Battery Connections |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Brent, what symptoms are you trying to remedy with the MAP sensor, also what have you tried to fix said symptoms. I haven't seen that particular part come up in the time I've been paying attention, but that doesn't mean it never has.
If you start a fresh thread with GT-40 somewhere in the title, you'll get a good amount of GT-40s weighing in. Hopefully a solution will be found and I can post it back here and add it to the spreadsheet. |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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The MAP sensor on the GT40 is shown in picture below just above the ACT with the vacuum line running to it. Look through all the google images that the search found, you will find one that looks the same.
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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workky
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2004 Location: Marietta,Ga Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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I google that PN, my map looks nothing like that, it's more of a rectangular box with a hose nipple on it. Has anyone here replaced there MAP sensor I did not see it on the spreadsheet, just curious of symptoms Thanks |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Unclogging clogged fuel pickup screen, solves runs&dies fuel starve problem as discussed here: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40597&title=98-gt40-rpms-drop-when-engine-warms-up
Updated Spreadsheet added in Clogged Fuel Pickup Row, Runs and Dies Fuel Starve Column: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Ford-AA5Z-9F479 Map Sensor base number is 9F479 the prefix varies with revisions.
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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workky
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2004 Location: Marietta,Ga Status: Offline Points: 206 |
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Anyone have a motorcraft part number for the MAP sensor, i did not see it int he spreadsheet, surely somebody has replaced it
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kylake
Newbie Joined: September-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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GT-40 1998 SNOB warm engine shutting down; problem solved [Low pressure fuel pump]
As in other postings, my Nautique would start when cold and run great until the engine hit regular operating temperature (160 degrees). Then it drops to idle rough for 30 seconds or so and shut down (sometimes with a backfire). Would not re-start. After reading postings here, I replaced the easiest suspected part first: idle speed control valve. Test drove and got up to temp and it shut down again resulting in a 100-yard paddle back to the dock. Installed a new low pressure fuel pump. No problems during the test drive plus a 20-minute in neutral idle at the dock. Issue seems to be fixed. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Baffle Broken Loose, restricting muffler and causing reduced performance and slow acceleration.
Fix was to repair muffler. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38572&title=gt-40-slow-acceleration I updated the spreadsheet and added a new row for the broken muffler. I logged it under the reduced top speed column: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Replacing Fuel Pressure Regulator solves poor idle and eventual stalling.
Ruptured FP Regulator diaphram was allowing gas to leak into vacuum lines. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39282&title=1997-gt40-efi-poor-idle-eventually-shut-off Column added to spreadsheet for poor idle and stalling. Spreadsheet same link as above. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Fuel pumps not running = engine not running. Fixed by replacing ECM (ECA is the correct terminology as explained by Paul, AKA the engine computer) Relay. This is one of the two relays in the back of the motor. One of which is for the fuel pumps and one of which is for the ECA:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39443&title=gt40-fuelpumps-not-running Updated Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Replacing Idle Air Control fixes loping idle. This post also comes with an updated part number: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39377&title=gt40-isc
Updated Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17VemuIOaa9i8kEply-ZmFOSyjyzz8rd7B0WEuIT_6S0/edit?usp=sharing |
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