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1977 Ski Nautique Rebuild

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HatterBee View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-24-2012 at 9:30pm
Hello all. I have started to tear down my '77 SN and thought I would fill you guys in on my plans and progress. I have already discussed this in my thread of tearing down the engine but I figured I would migrate that information over here eventually.

This will be a complete rebuild. I am rebuilding the original engine and will replace the stringers and floor with coosa. I will not be putting any foam back in the boat. I MAY fill in the bow around the air ducks but that is a stretch and the only place it will be considered.

I found this boat in a shed covered in vines. I was able to get the engine running but I have never had it in the water. It hasn't been in the water for at least three years.

I will advise everyone that this will not be a complete "original" restoration. I do plan on customizing and modernizing it a bit. Mainly the electrical and gauges but I'm sure other things will come along as well.

I have removed the engine, all the wiring and gauges, fuel tank, shaft, carpet, etc. I am currently working on the foam due to the unusually nice weather lately. Below are some before and current pictures.














This is my little buddy helping me out!!!





Thanks for looking. This is not my first boat rebuild but it is my first ski boat and complete restore of this magnitude, so I am sure to have many questions. Thanks to all who have already helped! Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2012 at 9:51pm
Are you going to save the Ford tow vehicle next to it too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2012 at 10:29pm
I had a hard enough time getting them to sell the boat, but I did ask. My Dad would have loved that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrStevens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2012 at 11:48pm
Looks like a great one to restore, especially with the great help you have doing the work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote connorssons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-25-2012 at 1:36am
very cool! where,s the shed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-27-2012 at 8:47pm
Update:

I got all the foam out over the weekend. It was a chore but not as bad as I was anticipating. I have been measuring everything and taking lots of notes.

I have a coupe of questions though. I want to rework the battery box to house two batteries, what group size are normal for these Nautiques?

Also on the rear of the secondary stringers is the section of stringer in between the secondary and primary necessary? It seems the only use is to support the floor. I was thinking about just doubling up the secondary where the removable panel is and leaving out that extra stringer?? What do yall think. This would also allow more room to access the exhaust pipes and connections.



In the pic below you can see that additional stringer. There is about an inch and a half of foam between it and the secondary.



Thanks Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M_U_M_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 5:52am
We may both get in trouble here for me saying this..

I am doing a 79 restore right now as well and I'm only slightly further ahead of you. I took that "secondary" 1x6 out and just ran my main..


And just a tip for removing stringers...I highly highly highly reccomend using a tool called a Rotozip for cutting the glass away from your stringers. We has l of our stringers out of the boat in less than 2 hours. It costs around 100$ from the lowes store I believe, but it is definitely worth every penny.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:39am
A group 65 battery fits in the factory battery box very nicely.

The reason CC built the exhaust cavities that way (narrower at the front) is because the motorbox is narrower than the full width of the cavities. If you leave them full width, rather than taper them inwards, then you will be left with exposed holes in your floor (to the cavities/bilge) with the engine box closed. It seems like a good idea to simplify the structure until you get the boat all back together at the end of your project and go "oh sht, thats why they did that." Ive seen it happen!

Here is a visual. The "full width exhaust cavity shape is shown in yellow. It would leave a visible gap in the floor with the motorbox shut, shown in red.



Its sort of a necessary evil, as the 2 options that would allow you to simplify the structure are even less desireable. 1)Increase motorbox width at the expense of interior room, 2)narrow the main stringers... deviating from the 20" industry standard, creating motor mount issues, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maximal691 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:42am
I love barn finds. Ive been lucky/cursed with a few myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:54am
Thanks, Tim. At least I understand their purpose now. I still may try to simplify the process but will make sure it does not leave any gaps in the floor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:56am
Originally posted by M_U_M_P M_U_M_P wrote:

We may both get in trouble here for me saying this..

I am doing a 79 restore right now as well and I'm only slightly further ahead of you. I took that "secondary" 1x6 out and just ran my main..


And just a tip for removing stringers...I highly highly highly reccomend using a tool called a Rotozip for cutting the glass away from your stringers. We has l of our stringers out of the boat in less than 2 hours. It costs around 100$ from the lowes store I believe, but it is definitely worth every penny.



MUMP thanks for the advice. Do you know which model Roto and blades you used? I have looked at those before. I wont have any trouble with my current tools until I get in that area in between those stringers, this is where a smaller tool would work better.

Do you have a thread or pics of your restore?

Thanks again. Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jllogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 12:13pm
I used a rotozip but I used the little 3 inch sawblade attachment. That let me get right down by the bottom. Alot of guys use an angle grinder with a diamond blade. Same idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M_U_M_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 2:08pm
I will find out what model for ya, but It was the three inch saw blade one. I know it worked like 100% better than the angle grinder..and it can fit in all the areas, and when pressed all the way to the guard, it still will not mess up your stringers, they will just have a shallow saw line down them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jllogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 2:34pm
yes The nice thing about the zip is you can flip the end around and move the guard so you always have the angle. On my angle grinder its a pain to switch the grip or guard position. I think it worked best as well but I can see how the grinder would work if thats all you had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jllogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2012 at 2:38pm
Sears has mine still

Reconditioned for 71 bucks and then get the zip mate attachment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 80SN Barnfind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2012 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by Jllogan Jllogan wrote:

On my angle grinder its a pain to switch the grip or guard position.


Guard? Who uses a guard?? That silly thing got thrown out with the box my Dewalt came in!

Diamond blade on the Dewalt and a pneumatic pencil grinder to finish, makes for quick clean work.

Nice find Allen! Looking forward to the updates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2012 at 5:54pm
Well lots of research as the weather has not cooperated. I really want to do coosa, but have also been toying with the idea of Doug Fir. Is it really worth about $500 and double time to finish in order to have a boat with no wood in it. My preliminary calculations have the coosa costing around 1k but probably $1,200for the boards and extra glass to laminate. The Doug Fir would cost about $550 figuring the wood and CPES.

I have also been thinking if I do coosa that I could laminate two pieces of 3/4 coosa in stead of three pieces of 1/2 for the mains. This would save just over $200 and have plenty of scrap coosa for all the backing plates and air box. I have talked with Tim about this and he has advised me to use three 1/2 pieces.

I know this is not a ton of money but it is like more than a quarter of my budget for the whole project and I keep forgetting it is a 34 year old boat.

What do you all think? I am planning on ordering materials this week or next. My distributor will drop ship all my material even the coosa for free to Greenville, which is three hours from my house and I have to travel there next week. So I want to get this figured out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2012 at 6:45pm
Dont bother weighing the value of the boat into the equation. Any way you cut it, you wont get your money back on a project like this! Its a labor of love.

I'll say one more time that 3 layers of 1/2" is a much better way to go than 2 layers of 3/4" on the mains. You'd be down to 1/2 strength at the joints if using 3/4", as opposed to retaining 2/3 strength if using 1/2".

A single additional layer of coosa on the main stringers will not use up an entire additional sheet of material. The 1/2" is also a few bucks less expensive than the 3/4", so at $190 or so per sheet, I dont understand how going with 3/4" would save you $200+. I also found 1/2" to be much more useful, in general, as scrap/misc pieces. I only used 3/4" in the floor under where the seats mount- and when I do it again, I hope to simplify things and stick with one grade and width of coosa (1/2" Bluewater 26) for everything.

Whether or not the $500 premium is worth it or not is up to you, after all, its your money. You may get a little better feedback here if you go into a little more detail on how you plan to build the structure. Foam vs. no foam, glass vs. wood/coosa floor, ribs (if any), etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2012 at 9:11pm
Tim, I can get away with four sheets [(1) 3/4 and (3) 1/2] but if I use all 1/2 then it will take 5 sheets. My cost on a sheet of 1/2 Bluwater 26 is 220 and the 3/4 is 260 the 1/2 bluwater 20 is 150. I might need to find a better price, but my supplier is usually a bit cheaper than everyone plus no shipping cost. That is where the difference is. I will be using Bluwater 20 for the floor.

I do not plan on putting in any foam and I will building ribs outboard of the secondaries. I also plan on installing as many inboard bulkheads as possible. One forward of the mains and one just aft of the battery box for sure. I am hoping to have room for at least one more.

I am also going to frame out the air box and hopefully place my air hoses as far starboard as possible to allow for more storage forward of the observers seat under the bow.

Coosa also makes a 3/4 bluwater 26 that is 4' by 12' and 1/2 that is 5' by 12'. My mains are 12' 3" and I just removed the port main and secondary today and the forward most 4 inches was not even touching the hull. I can make those 12 footers work if I can get them. I am checking with my distributor to see if I can get those. The price of either would help lower the total and make it easier to build.

Thanks, whats the word on the speedos?

Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-29-2012 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by HatterBee HatterBee wrote:

Tim, I can get away with four sheets [(1) 3/4 and (3) 1/2] but if I use all 1/2 then it will take 5 sheets. My cost on a sheet of 1/2 Bluwater 26 is 220 and the 3/4 is 260 the 1/2 bluwater 20 is 150. I might need to find a better price, but my supplier is usually a bit cheaper than everyone plus no shipping cost. That is where the difference is. I will be using Bluwater 20 for the floor.

I do not plan on putting in any foam and I will building ribs outboard of the secondaries. I also plan on installing as many inboard bulkheads as possible. One forward of the mains and one just aft of the battery box for sure. I am hoping to have room for at least one more.

I am also going to frame out the air box and hopefully place my air hoses as far starboard as possible to allow for more storage forward of the observers seat under the bow.

Coosa also makes a 3/4 bluwater 26 that is 4' by 12' and 1/2 that is 5' by 12'. My mains are 12' 3" and I just removed the port main and secondary today and the forward most 4 inches was not even touching the hull. I can make those 12 footers work if I can get them. I am checking with my distributor to see if I can get those. The price of either would help lower the total and make it easier to build.

Thanks, whats the word on the speedos?

Allen
The joints of laminating composite have ALWAYS been a concern of mine. Do not go two layers of 3/4. you are taking a big chance on the butt joint. Tim and Joe at least went 3 layers of 1/2" spreading the flex modulus out over a bigger area and then compensated for the butt joint with a heavier glass lay up.

Have you ever looked at the flex modulus? Calculations? Do you know how to use the formulas? Sorry but I feel you have NOT done the proper "homework". Do not proceed until you do so.

Allen,
you have not as mentioned done your "homework"!! Once again, it's the butt joint that's a concern.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 11:24am
Allen, if you can get the 12' long sheets and avoid any joints, then Id say youre ok with 2 layers of 3/4" for the mains.

How close is your Coosa supplier to you? Have you looked at CompositesOne? They have a location in Rock Hill, SC, which appears to be about 2 hrs from you. I was quoted $191 for a 4x8 sheet of the 1/2" B26. Something to think about.

If I understand you correctly, youre planning on using 1/2" B20 for the entire floor? Id say this is a good plan, except in the area where the floor spans the bilge (engine box to battery box). You'll need to reinforce that with a lot of glass to keep it from flexing. Id recommend doubling it up over the bilge area. I used 3/4" B26 for this piece in the BFN and still added another piece of 1/2" over the bilge.

Have you laid out every single piece you'll be making? With a full foamless coosa build, 4 sheets will be cutting it close! Especially if you plan on doing the airbox and rear removable panel out of Coosa. For reference, both Joe and I used 6 sheets on our boats. They were slightly larger than your 2nd gen SN, but I doubt you could get away with 2/3 the material.

I sent you an email about the speedo parts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 12:01pm
I have laid it out on paper and yes it is close with four sheets however I can get it done. I am waiting to see about the 12' stuff.


I am going to double the floor in the forward area as well. I saw that on your boat and others. I also saw in mine where CC had reenforced that area as well. I am still in the planning phases and still tweaking my numbers but if I can get the 12' 3/4 then I can get all the stringers including the additional ones that taper the exhaust channels out of that with a little left over. The floor with reinforcement under the seat area will take two sheets. Oh yeah maybe I forgot, i do have some left over Coosa here that I think is enough for the airbox.

Thanks again for looking and chiming in. Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 12:19pm
Talked with those guys at Composites one and the Rock Hill location only handles Airex (penske) boards. The Lakeland Fl location handles Coosa.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 12:26pm
Airex is a good option, its pretty much the same stuff as Coosa. The 320 lines up with the Bluewater 20 and the 420 lines up with the Bluewater 26.

Regardless of whether they normally stock it or not, they should be able to get the coosa. I was quoted a 6-8 week leadtime for the non-stocked Airex (they dont stock all sizes and grades, normally), and a 3 week leadtime for the non-stocked Coosa. Even though it wasnt stocked, the Coosa was still about $10/sheet cheaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 4:54pm
Well Composites One can get me 3/4X5'X/12' Bluwater 26, but I have to buy three sheets and shipping. The price of boards are great but waiting on a shipping quote.

Anyone in NC or SC interested in a sheet of Coosa Bluwater 3/4X5'X12'??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 5:08pm
Allen, they want to charge you shipping to your door? It shouldnt cost anything to get it to your local distribution center (Rock Hill, SC). The quote I got from them in Dec said nothing about minimum quantities- I was quoted a number based on 1 sheet of each.

I only had the 8' sheets quoted though... maybe thats the difference? If so, you might want to price it out using 3 layers of 1/2" on the mains instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HatterBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 5:43pm
Yeah I am weighing all the options now. At least I know I can get the 12 foot stuff. I have decided to do the 1/2 if I can't get the 12 foot 3/4.

I am also still waiting on a price from my normal distributor but the lead time is 4-5 weeks which isn't a deal breaker but wanted to get started sooner.

The reasoning I got from Composites One on the shipping is that they do not stock Coosa at their place in Rock Hill, Lakeland Fl handles the Coosa for this area. They would have to special order from Coosa and they have a minimum 3 sheet order and freight to their place. I think it is a special order on both Composites One and Coosa. We are still hashing that out and while I don't need that much 3/4 depending on the shipping cost I may just do the whole thing in 3/4, stringers and floors. It should be a tank then. I don't think it would weigh too much, do you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 5:56pm
Coosa is pretty light- you wont take a significant weight hit going with 3/4" vs. 1/2" if you end up going that route.

If CompOne stocks the Airex, then dont be afraid to go that route either, if it makes lead times and pricing better. In looking at the specs, its essentially the same stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nautique frk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-01-2012 at 6:13pm
Tim,
I am the one who Allen is working with here at Composites One.

Just FYI I work with our buyers everyday on this material We stock what is used or pruchased every week by most boat mfg's in North And South Carolina, Regulator, Grady White, Key West and many others.

The sheets Allen has inquired about 3/4 x 5 x 12 Blue water 26 from Coosa is not a stock item at any of our locations.

Coosa requres C1 to buy a minimum of three sheets or more of this material at one time for us to meet their minimum order for this sheet size. One thing to remember about us is that we stock materials that our builders in many industries purchase in large volumes each week from us. Hope this helps clear this up.
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