Holley 4160, or edelbrock carb? |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Yeah, the carb was rebuilt not that long ago by someone else that presumably knew what he was doing as he had a whole basement of holley parts and was very familiar with holleys on cars, but also had worked on a few on boats, specifically a couple inboard ski boats.. The metering block was cleaned in carb cleaner, along with the main body of the carb.
I will clean out and blow out the carb and metering block again, maybe stuff got clogged in it since then. The original pump was 4psi, as far as the symptom, it didn't run beyond idle with the original pump making only 4 psi. I didn't have a gauge on the pump until recently. And the gap was way off on the accelerator pump from the rebuild date until the other day when I re set it properly. Considering that I can turn down the psi to 4.5 psi with my regulator, I don't think that putting the old original pump on would stop the raw gas out the venturi issue. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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did the boat ever perform good after the carb rebuild?
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Tom, The carb was rebuilt by someone you think knows about Holleys but they didn't even set the Accel pump correctly. If I were you at this point I would pull that MF'R off and start with a fresh rebuild or throw it in the GD trash can and by a new one. Your wasting your time trying to adjust something that is obviously junk. Rebuild it again, I think the needle and seat is junk or there's debris keeping it from closing, end of story, what the heck else could it be.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Alan, a few week ago I had one of my primary venturis drip at iddle and flood the engine. Got no response from that side's air mixture screw.
I think I cleaned, set float and assembled my carb like 4 times and no deal, After some tinkering, I finally solved it putting some resin glue over the metering block plugs. No more drips, the air mixture screw yet doesnt stop the engine when fully closed, just makes it stumble. I dont think this is Tom's case, but just for the record, keep an eye on those plugs. |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3334 |
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i concur, this carb is a turd.
When the idle circuit in the metering block is boogared up, the first thing someone does is up the idle to make the engine run. The idle mix screws go mostly ineffective. the idle is upped till the engine runs off the transition slots instead if the idle mix ports. I've observed dripping from the main boosters on carbs in this condition. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Interesting guys, Great info here.
So, is the metering block the same as an automotive one? I might just say screw it and buy a whole new carb if a simple coule little tests don't make t work. Since i am working again, at pretty much a dream job, I might just go the new carb route. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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There are many different metering blocks, dont know what the part specific number is for the marine unit. Skidim seems to sell it at a reasonable price.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3334 |
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How many weeks of summer left? anyone? anyone? Buhler? Anything you do to this carb is turd polish. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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You think like my Fiance. :)
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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Whitfield
Senior Member Joined: July-30-2009 Location: Central Va Status: Offline Points: 449 |
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Simple solution check.
With key off engine off. Pull fuel line from carb. Rig fuel line from small 1 cup funnel to carb. Pour fuel carefully from container into funnel and fill to funnel. Does carb leak / weap? Sounds like a bum needle seat assy. If it weaps with no pump pressure then fix the obvious and repeat same test until it doesn't leak / Then circle back around and take another look at carb settings. I'd like to think that most Holley needle and seats in good working oreder will hold stock pump pressure even if they test out around 8psi. How accurate is your test line gauge at low pressure? My fresh reman carb is weaping too ~ so needle seat / float repair is on my short list too. |
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Michael ....
I'm the black sheep ~ 1984 Dixie 299 Super Skier (350 Chev PCM / counter rotation / Velvet drive) Open Bow. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Hmm, so pour fuel down the inlet tube of the carb after it's been disconnected from the pump, but connected to a hose with the funnel to see if it weeps when the fuel line is filled to the funnel?
The needle valve seals when a vacuum is put to the inlet tube, but that is the opposite direction of the gas flow when the pump is pumping gas. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Keep in mind that the float provides the force to shut off the fuel supply when the bowl is full. Without gas in the bowl the float doesn't push the needle shut. If you put a vacuum on the inlet, sure it will close the needle, but that doesn't prove the float is set right. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Tom have you checked to see if your float is full of gas? Maybe it's leaking and no matter where you set it it won't close the needle. As for doing the funnel test thing that would only confirm the obvious. I still say a new carb is your best approach at this point.
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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or replace the float |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Thank you Captain Obvious.. but I still say he's dealing with a carb rebuilt by someone unqualified to open a pack of cigarettes let alone his carb. My first suggestion was for him to rebuild it again so he atleast would know where he stands with the unit, at that time he would have found the float full of gas and replaced it if it was indeed leaking. My second suggestion, throw the darn thing in the trash and put a new unit on it and get the boat out of the darn driveway, it's becoming an eyesore! Most guys have done stringer jobs in the length of time this has taken to sort out, pretty soon we'll be arguing over to fill or not fill with antifreeze. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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it has taken some time on this one, I'll assume the rebuild isn't all that bad and that he had no clue how to check a float or couldn't tell from just holding it in his hand it was bad, so it's a little cheaper to spend twenty bucks on a float and cross your fingers he didn't screw something else up, before blopping down 5 beans on a new carb.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3334 |
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Not to dig at tom but i don't think he has the experience or skillset yet to get this carb in proper order. The three-four of us may. but that doesn't help him.
A new carb and he would at least understand how the right carb is supposed to perform. Then he can dink around and hone his skills trying to make that old turd work like the new one on his own time without leaving the girl in a lawchair in the hot driveway all summer wanting to go boating but instead having to stare at hairy crack bent over the engine every weekend. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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if it was Q-jet yea i would agree, but It's a Holley they are so simple especially if it's the fatory model and not a replacement like so many have, replace the float enjoy the boat and save the money to spend on the split tails.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Gottaski is right and I know sometimes I'm a little quick with my replies, I mean no disrespect to Tom(horkn) abilities. I already looked through my stash of carb parts and If I had something better than what he is working with right now it would already be on it's way to him.
I do have a front bowl with a good float and I can throw a new needle and seat in it if you want, I would need to clean it up so might take me a day or so to get to it but it's yours if you want to try it. I have seen first hand that the inside of a bowl can peel, although rare and part of a recall it happened to me. The little flakes of metal kept clogging up my needle and seat and drove me crazy figuring out how the stuff was getting inside. Took me a while to figure out the debris was coming from the inside and clogging up the entire carb trying to get out. I doubt thats your problem but check again for any debris inside that bowl when you open it up again. |
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3334 |
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Similarly, in two instances i'v found red papery sediment in the bowls; from the paper seals beneath the one-way valves in the fuel pump.
A valve was loostening, they are press-fit, and the gasket shreaded slowly over a year, routinely causing needle/seat issues till the valve popped out of its seat and pump action ceased. Also, a coworker installed a brand new holley and the thing always flooded out, like the needle and seat were bad. Had it apart mult times and turns out the front bowl assembly had a flaw. Solution was to send it the whole thing back and get another. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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More great reading guys:)
Alan, If you want to lend me that bowl, I would be more than happy to attempt a last ditch effort and see if that will do the trick. I have not attempted to flat the float. Don't the brass ones have more of an issue with sinking? It should float in water, correct? If this last ditch effort does not work, I am buying a new carb. I redid the entire interior of my boat in less time than I have messed around on this carb. I can't log in to CCF at work, with training and meet and greet for the next few weeks, I am busy and can occasionally check email at work. Crazy German company is very strict about any surfing, but as a senior buyer, i HAVE to peruse the internet for electrical goodies for our machines. My supervisor already told me that if I need my internet fully unlocked, that I need to call IT and they will fix it. Any sort of forums still may be locked even if the IT dept unlocks it. My email is horkn at yahoo dot com if you want to get a hold of me Alan. Every time I have checked the bowl, it has been free of debris. I do have to say that this carb has made me wonder about my mechanical abilities from time to time. ;) |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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get a new float the specifc gravity of water and gasoline are different so use of water as media to determind a bad float is not the route to go, the route to go is straight to the parts store and buying a new holley float and install it in the carb.
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Yeah, gas is "lighter" than water, which is why gas floats on water, but the float should float on either water or gas. Or I could try floating the float in a cup of gas. AKA the stinky way. :) |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Online Points: 3334 |
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If you shake it and find no gas in it, then it floats, by definition.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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the correct way is weighing the float BTW, just replace the damn thing all ready... you've chased your ass enough ... you question every damn thing that is said why the hell do you even post if you all ready have the damn answer.
Fuel leaking into the venturi's of the carb is cause by. Bad needle and seat. Float is set too high. Fuel pressure is too high blowing the needle off of the seat. There is trash/debrie in the seat preventing the needle from seating. Or the float is saturated and not moving and allowing the needle to seal on the seat. You've been chasing your ass listen for a change it's all right here in this post what can cause the problem you've all ready done most but never have you thouched or thought about the float being bad, it seems pretty obviuos to some what the problem is. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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that doesn't work on plastic floats that are not hollow, or a tin can float that has sat out and drained, you check a tin can style right after removal yea it's a good indicator. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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It's the 3erd o 4th "obvious" reason for the carb problem so far... Anyway, the suggestion is good, get a new float, needle and seat, and see how you go, Dont think that's too expensive to test. if not, as other has wisely advised, get a new carb and mess with this one on your free time. Something odd was done to this one by the rebuilder. |
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5772 |
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Tom, email me with your address and I'll send the parts out monday if you haven't gotten squared away over the weekend.
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You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Sounds good Alan.
I will let you know what I find this weekend. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Well, I got around to testing the float today, as well as soaking the metering block in carb cleaner for about 2 hours and shooting the tubes in the metering block out with compressed air. Nothing foreign came out of the block in either soaking or with air pressure.
The primary float floats in a cup of gas. Alan, I am sending you an email. Tom |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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