Boat Dr. shell oil question |
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Guests ![]() Guest ![]() |
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if im speding the same amount of money, im gonna go with the synthetic(rotella) over pennzoil castrol or valvoline..because if my motors scuffing and metal-metal is happening my oil isnt doing its job to begin with..i think i better look at amsoil redline or royal purple...for only 10-13 a quart
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87BFN owner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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You can get royal purple direct, for a much better price. I buy it in 5 gallon jugs delivered for $120 last time I bought it. I will have to check on the price now.
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Guests ![]() Guest ![]() |
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..let me know the price and where you get it that cheap from...is that shipped to you?..royal purple is the sh*t..
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87BFN owner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-25-2006 Location: Ypsilanti, MI Status: Offline Points: 2194 |
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When I buy it, yes I get it shipped direct to me. I will have to find the number at home. I try to do it tonight, but I should have it by tomorrow night for sure. When I find it I will call and see what the price is.
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79nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Tim you read to much into a comment. What makes more since use existing parts and increase the volumes or create something new in lower volumes? what cost more what cost less? Try something new or use a proven design specification?
The 4.3 was designed specifically for small trucks. Why create a new transmission for this application. If you knew how GM approaches new designs you would understand. GM is cheap and if they can use existing parts on the shelf they will every time. It reduces overall cost, reduces part numbers, reduces records i.e. drawings, reduces overall time to market all are very key elements in mass production of anything. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Chris, I understand completely. Im not knocking the 4.3 or GM. Im just saying that it does have a lot in common with the 350- which has obviously withstood the test of time.
Exactly. There are few places that have higher loading and a larger metal-metal contact area than between the cam and flat tappet lifter. In non-scientific terms, oils with the zinc will "stick" to the metal surfaces better than the newer oils without the additives- especially synthetics which have been described as too "slippery". While these new oils work wonders in today's high tech engines to decrease emissions and increase efficiency, they dont offer enough protection for our old-tech Fords. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'd just like to comment on the lubricity of zinc in the metal stamping industry. We can run galvanized (zinc) steel dry without any oil and get 95% die life as compared to running with oil. This is due to the zinc "plating out" the die and adding lubricity. In most cases, this 5% less die life before re sharpening is desirable because it eliminates the de greasing procedure. Zinc as well as graphite and copper is the key component of anti-seize compounds |
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eric lavine ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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i need scientific proof, not marketing schemes, i have scientific proof on this 4.3.. no synthetics, no snake oils, nothing special just a good old fashioned oil change.
I have yet to seen a sludged boat engine or one so worn out that it was steaming blow by, except for a 68 Chris which the guy never changed his oil. boat engines get 10 times the attention from the owners as do thier cars and will the synthetics and snake oils work.... over time maybe i would say 100 years or so. I have yet to see a post on here from someone complaining about an oil related engine issue. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Look harder ![]()
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quinner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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I think you guy's are missing the boat on the green movement, perhaps a blend of vegetable oil for the SBC and used cooking oil for the Fords.
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behindpropeller ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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You guys are pretty ignorant that you don't even take the time to read through my link.
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Thats a pretty bold statement, especially since you have no idea if anyone read it or not (I did). Rather, its simply that no one has chosen to comment on it. |
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Geno ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: September-05-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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25 clams a pint. OUCH. |
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behindpropeller ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: July-31-2006 Status: Offline Points: 1810 |
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The point is that the technology is out there, but you guys follow your tails around without looking at all of the options.
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anthonylizardi ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: July-25-2007 Location: DFW, TX, USA Status: Offline Points: 836 |
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If they were ignorant they would be confused like I am. Sorry, newbie owner. I have been reading this post and at first I thought I had it narrow down to Rotella 40T or Valvoline VR1. Now I am consufed.
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Exactly. From what I can tell, ASL seems to be good stuff. They certainly have a lot of data to back up their bold claims. It does seem like overkill, though- especially at $15+ per oil change. My motor has over 1200 hours on it and the internals looked great when I tore the top end down- no signs of pitting or corrosion. Using the proper oil and changing it regularly is all that the motor needs. If you want to run it, go ahead. It probably wont hurt anything besides your wallet. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Dont get confused- you had it right. Finding out how long everyone has run what oils and their analysis of them wont prove helpful. The formulations have changed very recently to eliminate the zinc, so there just isnt enough history to draw any meaningful conclusions. Both the straight weight Rotella and the VR1 are great oils. |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Tim, I did read it but it came across to me too much like a unproven additive.
Look at the oil burning on this one! He must not be using the Camgaurd! ![]() Tim, just kidding here! |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I think changing the oil regularly is most important. We have a 1988, 240 hp PCM, 351 Ford with about 1500 hours on it. I've run 10w30 Valvoline (regular stuff) in it since 1992. The motor is tight. I don't think it will ever have to be rebuilt. Doesn;t smoke or use a drop of oil.
My brother has a 1980 Century Resorter with a 255 hp Merc. 1978 motor, (GM 350) according to the serial #. He's run straight 30w of various brands since new. That boat has about 1500 hours. Tight motor, I don't think it will ever need to be rebuilt. Doesn't smoke or use oil. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Bruce, remember that ALL oils had the zinc up until a few years ago. Now theres only a few left that do. Munday wiped a lobe on his cam 250 hours after making the switch to Mobil1, which is a very good oil, but didnt have the zinc. Is it worth the risk?
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Tim, I guess I'm a little slow to catch on. I was just relating this thread to the old Mustang that I recently purchased. But, it sounds like a good idea to switch over on these other 2 boats. My brother's already running straight 30w, so he should just move over to Rotella T. On my Ford, I guess I would go with the Valvoline VR1 because it is multi visc.
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Bruce, glad to bring you up to speed. No need to change over on your newer Chevy- it should be all roller and wont be susceptible to cam failure like the Fords if run without the additives. It wont do any harm though, if you prefer to run the same oil in both for the sake of convenience.
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anthonylizardi ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: July-25-2007 Location: DFW, TX, USA Status: Offline Points: 836 |
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JoeinNY ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Interesting to read you guys blab on all day about ZDDP when the number one thing that will kill 99% of boat engines is CORROSION[/QUOTE]
IMHO you’re being a bit harsh and bit judgmental, expecting a comment to this post is basically looking for an argument (trolling some would say). You start by telling thoughtful people trying to be helpful that they are blabbing and chasing their tails and then you make an unreasonably bold comment out of nowhere that corrosion is going to kill 99% of boat engines. Additionally, you do it in bold with a large size font, the Internet equilvent of shouting at us. Where is your evidence on that ground? In my experience improper winterizing kills most inboard engines, most two stroke engines die because of incorrect oil mixture or injection failure, overheating is the next highest killer, and improper assembly/part failures come next in line, water in the gas has cost me an engine as well, rarely with enough hours one will just plain old wear out. Internal (non water passage) corrosion may get %99 of plane engines but it is most likely closer to %5 percent of boat engines. Only once have I have had corrosion be the cause in boat engine failure but that was a two stroke left sitting improperly winterized for 4 years and not relevant. In fact none of these are relevant in the current thread and I wouldn't expect anyone to comment on them either. Oil formulation including the zinc is relevant with flat tappet cams, and probably contributed to two cam failures for me in the last 2 years so people aren’t chasing their tails just sharing pertinent research. We are all wrong on some things from time to time and that’s why we come here to share information and learn but no one wants to be yelled at baited into an argument or called ignorant .. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Its not a cam of worms, its another valid point. Multiviscosity oils should protect an engine better during cold starts (when most wear occurs). A 15w40 oil, for example, is supposed to act like a 15w oil when cold and a 40w when warm. Some claim that there are disadvantages to multivis (which I wont recount). Its true that PCM specified straight weight for the Fords, but from what Ive read, the quality of multivis oils has improved in recent years, so it is what I personally choose to run. Joe, edit your repeat paragraphs in your post ![]() |
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79nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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yes it does help especially on start-up |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I know what you mean, but tend to follow the manual's reccomendation. And I get nervous about the changing visc. after so many years. I was talking with boat dr the other day about 30w versus 40w and pointed out to him that Maine temps seldom reach 90 where LA temps often reach 90. He said why should it matter, the engines operate as the same temp anyway. That makes sense, although the manuals say different, but other than on start up, why should outside temp make a difference? |
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79nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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outside temps really doesn't make a difference, I always used 20w-50 racing oil in mine.
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anthonylizardi ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: July-25-2007 Location: DFW, TX, USA Status: Offline Points: 836 |
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Not that I really belief everything I see in the net but you guys got me thinking about oil and flat tappet cam, which I don't know what it is. I get the idea, tappet vs roller but I haven't seen one. I went to the net and I found this article on flat tappet cams. Interesting, this confirms what the Boat DR has been preaching about. At least during break-ins. I guess it says something about what is more beneficial.
This is an excerpt from crane cams: Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes. There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include: Shell Rotella T oil; Chevron Delo 400; and Mobil DELVAC oil. These oils are listed as diesel oils, but work great for flat camshaft “break-in”. We also recommend the use of Crane Cams # 99003-1 Break-in lube or GM “E.O.S.” (Engine Oil Supplement) Assembly Lubricant # 1052367. These should be poured over the lifters and camshaft prior to start up. CAUTION: We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in” because they are too slippery. Thischaracteristic reduces the tendency of the lifter to rotate on the camshaft lobe and mate properly. Prior to installing the camshaft and lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil. The oil filter should also be changed at this time. Here is the Article: Flat Tappet Cams Break-in And that's my two cents. |
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anthonylizardi ![]() Gold Member ![]() Joined: July-25-2007 Location: DFW, TX, USA Status: Offline Points: 836 |
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At the Ford Muscle website Comp cams confirms that Rotella T is the oil to use:
"Comp is recommending that flat-tappet camshaft owners use Shell’s Rotella T oils. Since that line of oil is primarily developed for diesel engines, Comp says the oil makeup contains many of the additives that many of the newer oils are lacking. Comp Cams also points out that a successful break-in also relies on using proper lifters. They caution that many of the imported lifters lack appropriate manufacturing tolerances, which can result in a lifter that doesn’t spin in its bore, or provides inadquate oiling to the cam lobe." I guess my balance is tilted towards Rotella T |
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