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"Blown" Ford 351

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by baitkiller baitkiller wrote:

God Bless you... and good luck.
I would have tossed that thing PDQ and used it an excuse to build more horsepower. The wife would never know the difference, Parts is parts to her and they all cost money..


HA HA !! Kindred spirits.

Hey, here's a nice light 5 liter drop-in.... fully stocked with 1200 ponies !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote outerbanked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 10:30pm
Wondering if you can use an air compressor and the block drain fitting to make air come out the cracks. Maybe stick a soapy rag up the rear exhausts and take thre hull intake off and put a rag or wood plug to block flow. Remember to drop your regulator down to 15lbs.
If you can suck up soapy water first, you might be able to blow bubbles through all cracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-02-2017 at 11:05pm
Ok, well, I suggest everyone buy preparation H stock. I've always had more time than money so I try and fix things instead of replacing them. I'm gonna dig in Sunday, weather permitting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2017 at 4:26am
Pressurizing the block is a good test to verify no leaks but remember there is always the chance you have a crack in the head or block that opens up when hot.
I did a cold test on a 460 Ford last year using 35 PSI of air pressure. You do not want to use more than that because it can blow out good gaskets if you go higher.
I put a gauge on my 460 closed the ball check valve to seal it and left it 24 hours to make sure it held pressure. That work saved me pulling the heads.   Turned out in my case we found a leak in the exhaust risors gaskets was putting water in the oil. The 460 was fine with an oil change. It ran all summer this year. My Nephews boat.   It is pretty easy to plug all the water exit holes and plumb in a connection to your air lines. I used a ball check valve and hooked it to one heater hose. Brought pressure slowly up to 35 psi then got out the soap and water spray and started checking for leaks.   I found 3 leaks at my hose clamp connections with the soap and water before getting a good test.   It will tell you quickly if you have an internal leak letting water flow into the oil.
One thing I learned the hard way, when you bleed down the air pressure after the test do it slowly. I popped off my air hose with the valve open and the water in the block under 35 PSI sprayed out, soaked a lot of stuff within 10 feet of the boat. I did not think of that when I disconnected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2017 at 7:48am
I like the pressure test idea. How exactly is it done? How and where do you hook the air compressor, which I'd need to buy, to the engine? Where and how would I hook up a gauge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2017 at 10:33am
Juts need to block off everywhere the water goes in & out of engine. Just get an air hose, quick disconnects, & tire chuck. Use your spare tire for pressure source. When you disconnect it will let you know if there still is pressure in the circuit.

Personally, I think this is a waste of time, as you aready know there are serous cracks.

Better to spend the time disassembling, imo.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2017 at 2:48pm
If you want a quick and dirty test, true backyard hack styleI would

Drain the oil, leave the plug out

Take the hose from your raw water pump to the thermostat housing and disconnect it from the raw water pump

Hook your garden hose to that hose

Turn on the water to the hose

You'll now have water flowing, some is going out the exhaust and the engine will be full.

It won't overpressurize anything because the exhausts are open but you'll have about normal operating pressure in the block.

Now...............see if water is draining out the oil pan drain.

You'll be able to quantify the leakage this way too.

No water coming out, no leaks and if there's water, well you know the rest

It won't tell you the location, but neither will air.

Like I said............straight from the backyard, but effective



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2017 at 3:30pm
This is a picture of a coolant test on my BMW X5 4.8L. It must be pressure checked before final assembly or you may waste a 1/2 day of labor.
My tool is homemade using parts in the garage and a trip to the local hardware.
Not shown but off to the right side of the brass T in the picture is a Ball Check valve to allow me to shut it off when needed and on the end of the ball check valve is the connection for my air compressor hose.
I just turn the compressor regulator down to 35 PSI before this test to make sure I don't blow out the gaskets in the engine.

It worked well on the 460 and on the wifes X5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 1:53pm
All sounds good. I'm going to try the backyard water test just for kicks, then tear into it. It seems to me that if I don't see any obvious cracks or more holes, each of the heads would have to be tested separately as well as the block somehow. I'm not sure if the risers and exhaust manifolds would play into water in the oil since they are just water and exhaust?
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 4:28pm
If its freeze damage. It is the block that is bad. As already pointed out if water is going into the oil the likely crack is in the lifter valley. Start looking for a block.
Overheats will damage heads and cause head gaskets to blow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 5:18pm
If you want to keep the engine as a reverse rotation engine you'll need a 351W block with a 2 piece rear main seal so you can use the reverse rotation crank.you have now.    This was suggested to me. I have no idea what a two piece main seal is. Ill have to go to school on blocks.
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 6:34pm
If you have a 1 piece seal block you just need a 1 piece reverse rotation seal
I think Ken in the past had located another cheaper sourse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 7:22pm
William, I like your tenacity. You learned a new skill in making engine Block plugs way bigger than I ever thought possible. We’ve learned about Lock ‘n Stitch, Block cement, backyard internal crack tests and I’m sure a few other things if I re-read the whole thing a few times!

This Block deserves a proper burial, so I thought you might want to keep it for your Men’s Den coffee table.

https://www.houzz.com/product/17083308-engine-block-coffee-table-metallic-silver-industrial-coffee-tables

Engine Block Coffee Table
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote baitkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 8:10pm
I like that but it has 2 flaws:
1) My wife would kill me.. again.
2) I'd stub my toe on it in the middle of the night and be crippled for life.
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 8:43pm
Thanks for the props and ideas for a table, but, I'm not scheduling a funeral just yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 9:03pm
I think you are emotionally attached to your engine Block like a dying pet or loved one. Ya got to let it go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2017 at 10:02pm
At least get your local hospice people to show up and have someone give it last rites too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 3:50am
Yee of little faith. The fat lady is still eating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tryathlete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 4:17am
Originally posted by William777 William777 wrote:

Yee of little faith. The fat lady is still eating.


It’s more than just a flesh wound!

It’s just a flesh wound!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 3:59pm
Well that Monty Python was freakin hilarious. I AM that Black Knight! Good call tryathelete. Alas, I took the intake manifold off and found the lovely big crack and it look like to continues under the starboard head, so, I give up. Although I'm tempted to patch it too, I'd be on edge every time I take the boat out with Frankenstein engine patches all over.        Also, from the pic can someone tell me if I have the one piece seal block or two? I'm at sea on this at the moment. Would a difference enable me to use a standard 351 block? Not sure if I'm even asking a coherent question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 4:11pm
I see that Ford changed to a one piece seal in 84, so mine must be a two piece, I'm not sure what that has to do with my case though. Do I have an option to change the entire engine? Can I change the whole thing out for a clockwise rotation rig? What would you do? Where in the world would I source a 351W reverse rotation engine ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 4:19pm
I would swap your parts into a new block.


54 Atom


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Keep it original, Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 4:48pm
+1 and a 2 piece seal block can be machined to a 1 piece block. 351's were built up until '96. All your internals will fit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 4:57pm
Time for the funeral

You have a 2 piece rear main seal in a 78 engine, that was mentioned way back.

If all your other parts are good and you want to transfer stuff to another block you'd need an early block with the 2 pc rear main seal because your reverse rotation crank has wick lines, helix lines or whatever somebody may call them for oil at the back of the crank for oil control reasons. You also have a rotation specific camshaft distributor (just the gear on the distributor is rotation specific) and starter

You can buy a long block reverse rotation engine from numerous rebuilders, transfer your marine parts and be good to go. Of course it will cost more than transferring parts to another block, but in the long run, it may be worth it for you.

You could get a junkyard 351W from a truck that rotates the opposite way, transfer parts and reindex the transmission to work for you. You'd have to buy a normal rotation prop so that when you put the boat in forward, it will go forward. And you'd need a normal rotation marine starter and distributor (gear).

People will tell you that the boat will handle differently and lean much more to the right with a normal rotation engine To the CC purist types this is absolutely sacrilegious

I'd spend the next week or 3 of your life going through old threads here on CCF about 351W engines, read other people's experience, listen to recommendations, then make up your own mind based on your budget, engine assembly experience and
tools available to you etc

There are west coast people who will come along that could tell you what places they used for things like a long block

Oh yeah, ask questions first instead of after buying parts to make sure you get things right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

+1 and a 2 piece seal block can be machined to a 1 piece block. 351's were built up until '96. All your internals will fit


Gary

Can you go the other way and machine a 1 piece seal block for a 2 piece seal.

I never really thought about it

With a 78 he's got a 2 piece rear main seal assuming it's the original block

A little voice in my head says probably not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 5:16pm
More importantly is why,meaning you would not need to. You could machine it for a 1 and put a speedi sleeve on the crank. If my Mustang engine ever comes out,which I doubt,I'll have it done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

+1 and a 2 piece seal block can be machined to a 1 piece block. 351's were built up until '96. All your internals will fit


Now I think I see what you're trying to tell him maybe.

But if he want's to keep it simple which it seems like he does, he finds a 2 piece seal older block and no machining is needed at least for the seal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-05-2017 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

More importantly is why,meaning you would not need to.
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My point exactly

We're just saying the same thing differently
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote William777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 2:44pm
Lads, a member here was nice enough to inform me there was a 351 block for sale in Portland for 110 bucks .(including heads, cam shaft and all sorts of bits) A friend of mine happened to be there at the very time, so she picked it up for me. Its been bored? to 30 over. The same fellow who told me about the block happened to have a set of 30 over pistons, which I also bought. So now, all I have to do is completely swap every part and I'll have a perfectly good 351. I'm terrified but no one ever did anything till they did it the first time. So the fat lady did a lovely aria over the old block. I'm aiming for Spring. Pray for me. William
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samudj01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-11-2017 at 3:28pm
This is why I enjoy this site. Good luck on your project. I’ll be following and hoping to learn a lot. Please update as you go.
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