"Blown" Ford 351
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42069
Printed Date: April-19-2024 at 1:16pm
Topic: "Blown" Ford 351
Posted By: William777
Subject: "Blown" Ford 351
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 7:59am
|
Hello, I just bought a 1978 Martinique and the P.O. said the engine was blown. She said it started smoking and water was pouring into the boat just after launching. She was able to go back to shore under power. Then the boat sat till now, about six months. There is water in the oil. Tomorrow I'm going to attempt a compression test. I tried to turn the engine over with the coil disconnected during the purchase but only got a click from the starter solenoid. The engine is not seized. Any input is appreciated at this point. Paid $500 Thanks, William ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Replies:
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 9:26am
|
You could take it to the lake if it is close and back it in still attached to the trailer and start it and duplicate the problem. Water pouring out is not a good thing If it were me, I would pull the valve covers and loosen all the rocker nuts all the way. Then I would perform a "leak down test" with the pistons at BDC. At BDC you are inspecting the entire bore and usually hear where the problem is. That will tell you far more than a compression test. Leak down gages are readily available. on line but require an air compressor.. Listen for the leakage and that should help pinpoint the problem. Good luck ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: chau8238
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 11:24am
| I would try to get the motor to turn over by hand with a ratchet on the crank. With water being in the oil and sitting for that long, you're likely going to need a rebuild. |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 2:14pm
|
Thank you, I'm prepared to get dirty. I'll look and see what air compressor options are out there, those are handy to have around anyway. Aiming for a May relaunch of the beauty. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: scootdogydog
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 2:23pm
|
I bet there are some good blocks that people have around....I have one, but your location would help...that is of course if yours is bad and you'd rather not get it rebuilt. Good luck ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7183" rel="nofollow - 1999 Python 1980 Ski Tique 1968 Mustang WIP |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 3:26pm
|
Start simple, pull the plugs and see what you can learn. Side by side plugs that look different from all the other cylinders would indicate the head gasket is blown between those two cylinders. Sounds like you stole this boat. Good luck with your repairs. ------------- |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 7:31pm
|
I pulled all the plugs and they all look very good. I removed the valve covers and its beautifully clean. The dipstick has the milky look. Wouldn't there be milky residue on the plugs and under the valve covers due to water in the oil? I'm still sourcing an air compressor for a leak down test. Tried to kick it over without the coil and found the starter is junk. And yes if this engine ever runs again, I stole the boat. Found one freeze plug missing too. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 8:28pm
|
sounds to me like she launched it in the spring and the freeze plug being popped out was what put large amounts of water in the bilge. The smoking was probably steamy hot water from the freeze plug hole. You have water in the oil which combined with the freeze plug issue would make me think the engine wasn't winterized right and it froze. You could have an internal crack letting water into the oil to go along with your obvious external leak. Doesn't sound good but I'd put in a new freeze plug, put in a new starter or rebuild the old one. Don't forget if you're getting a new one you have a reverse rotation engine and you need a reverse rotation marine starter Make sure you can turn it over by hand with the plugs out before using the starter. Then change the oil and start it and run it some and see if you have water in the oil Large amounts of water would say there's an internal crack. A very small amount could be residual water that didn't all come out with the oil change. If you drain the oil cold, some of the water would settle to the bottom and come out first to give you an idea of how much water is in the oil It might take a few oil changes to get rid of everything. If you can't get rid of it, you probably have an internal crack It sounds like she didn't run it very long at all so there's probably no milky residue because of the short run time. The plugs could all look good like you said because the water isn't in the cylinders but in the sump. I'd get it running before doing a leakdown test, because all the cylinders could test just fine in spite of having a cracked block letting water into the oil. Maybe you'll be lucky..........maybe not 
|
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-23-2017 at 9:11pm
|
Great advice Keno, lets hope it lives as is to run again. If your starter is junk take it to a local rebuilder and let them rebuild your starter. If you buy a reverse rotation starter it will be big bucks but normally they can rebuild yours for about the same price as a standard rotation rebuild. Sometimes a rap on the starter case with a hammer gets a marine starter working again. Rust is hard on electric motors. Mark ------------- |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 12:29am
|
Good advice all around. I'll get it started before doing all the testing. I'm trying not to get too excited about it being something simple. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 12:59am
|
Ken, what's other name that those freeze plugs are called ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 2:05am
|
man I love it when KENO comments. So simple that even I can almost understand... john oh yeah...forgot. We need pics. Sounds like you stole it to me. ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 2:48am
Let's keep your fingers crossed though and maybe you'll get lucky We can let Pete tell us all about those plugs Gary or maybe Quinner will add something Link to Pete's multi purpose plugs http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40915&title=freeze-damage" rel="nofollow - link |
William777 wrote:Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 3:07am
|
I think on the Floor at GM or Ford those plugs are called casting plugs but once the engine leaves the factory they somehow become Freeze Plugs in the aftermarket! Must be a metamorphose of some kind. Don't worry William, this is an old inside joke, you will see as time goes by. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 7:18am
I think it was Ken's great great grandfather that was a back yard hack, didn't drain an engine, it froze pushing the core plugs out so he changed the name to freeze plugs.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 8:41am
I always wondered where my back yard hack tendencies came from . Now I know, thanks Pete
|
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 2:17pm
|
Before you get too far down the road, I would think that a cracked exhaust manifold is highly likely in this scenario as well. They need to be inspected for leaks and could be pulled as a first step. They can be a pain to get off, but they will need to come off anyway if the rest of the work that Keno is speaking about needs to happen. If the EM is cracked, you would have the same symptoms as you are describing, and it is possible that the block is still good, even if a freeze plug is pushed out. this scenario is very similar to the condition of my boat when i purchased it, the block was fine, the intake and the EM's were cracked. Sitting with water in the back two cylinders did the engine in, but the block itself was not damaged. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 7:00pm
|
No need to take the exhaust manifolds off to do what I mentioned. It could be an exhaust manifold leak but if you get it running you'll be able to narrow down where the water is coming from. An exhaust leak puts water in the cylinder(s) and it then has to leak by the rings to get into the oil. If you run it some and pull the plugs and crank it over you'll know if there is water in one or more cylinders when it comes shooting out. An intake manifold leak just dumps the water straight to the oil in the lifter gallery area and doesn't put any in the cylinders. A cracked water jacket usually puts oil straight to the sump also.without getting into the cylinders. Usually......not always depending on crack location. I'd run it , narrow things down to what leaks and what doesn't and then go from there. You mentioned the spark plugs looking good, that's why I wouldn't dive into the exhaust manifolds just yet. And before doing anything you want to make sure it turns over with a wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt. And drain the oil to get an idea if there's a lot of water or a little water in the sump. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 7:02pm
By the way Pete, I did one of those family tree searches and great, great grandpa was named of all things................Pete
|
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 9:26pm
|
You should try turning the engine with the starter now that the plugs are removed. It may have been hydro locked keeping it from turning. Fluid does not compress so a piston pushing on water will lock the engine. Pull the plugs, hit the starter and water may shoot 15 feet out of the spark plug hole. It's possible the starter is actually good. ------------- |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 10:35pm
|
Thanks everyone. I turned the engine with the nut on the balancer and it turnes smoothly. I removed the starter and tried it on a battery and nothing. The gear in the starter turns manually so it's not locked up. Think its toast. Found a source online asking 198.00 for a new one. Changed the oil, It was like heavy cream coming out. Should I see about a rebuild kit for the starter of just bite the 200 dollar bullet? I do want to follow advice and get it started before doing anything else. Thanks. Oh I replaced the casting plug. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: scootdogydog
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 10:45pm
|
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Marine-Engine-Starter-CCW-3138-/161874248581" rel="nofollow - ebay ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7183" rel="nofollow - 1999 Python 1980 Ski Tique 1968 Mustang WIP |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 11:03pm
|
Thanks for the EBAY tip. Done. Say it will be here by Wednesday. I can't work on it till Sunday so more from me then. Thanks very much. I'm living to hear that engine run.. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-24-2017 at 11:39pm
|
William, Before you order the starter, take a few minutes and open up the old one. Clean up the commutator and brushes, oil up the bushings and try it again. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 12:05am
|
I've already ordered it. I bought a motorcycle in Three Lakes once. Drove there from Memphis. BMW 100RT . Nice place. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 12:07am
|
Pete, for me it would take a few hours. Everything I go to do takes 4 times longer than I expected! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 12:45pm
|
Well, I have a totally free day today and so I'm going to try and clean up the old starter as Pete suggest, even though I already ordered the new one. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 7:40pm
|
Well blow me down, I cleaned the starter and it works now. I got it back and started the engine! Used the fake lake method. It ran for a minute but kept cutting out, bad fuel probably. Anyway it showed me where the water is coming from. It's from the front side behind the alternator. There's a cracked gasket showing there too. I took two picks but not sure how/if I can post them here. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 8:00pm
|
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/williamcary12/media/20171025_143052_1508967300319_1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/williamcary12/media/20171025_143137_1508967299851.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 8:01pm
|
Sounds like progress Good job on the starter, Pete must be just beaming right now Are you trying to post pictures from a phone or maybe a laptop/PC? Realizing that a minute isn't much run time, how does your oil look after you ran it ? If there's a big internal leak a lot of water can get in in a minute or so on the hose. I'd hook a temporary tank to the fuel pump and maybe clean the carburetor too, to make further running and testing easier |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 8:12pm
|
Here are your pictures You must have a Commander engine because a PCM would have the raw water pump right in that area. That leak looks like it on the timing cover where it bolts to the front of the engine. That's a water passage thru the cover from the circulating pump to the block If it's a gasket leak you're getting luckier maybe. Water can get into the oil thru the timing cover too.  
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 9:09pm
|
William, Congratulations. You are making some progress. Hopefully the leak is simple and you'll have that engine running soon.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 9:40pm
|
Here's a picture of the backside of the timing cover and you see one water passage. It's the thumb sized hole about 2 inches below my thumb If the gasket is bad you can leak water externally like you're seeing and you can leak water into the timing chain area too and it's a real easy path to the oil sump from there. With the cover removed you can look down into the front of the sump. Hopefully just a gasket issue and no cracks To remove the cover and replace the gasket you can get a timing chain gasket set pretty cheap I'd replace the timing chain at the same time while the cover is off. Back in 78 they were using nylon coated aluminum gears that liked to throw chunks of nylon off and make for some erratic camshaft timing 
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 10:00pm
|
Thats's a great shot of the cover. Looks exactly like the spot the water is coming from, How do you post the pictures? I looked at Amazon for a gasket set and saw Windsor V8 and Cleveland but no Commander? The engine sounded AMAZING for the 10 seconds it ran. I also see many different brands for timing chains. Recommendations? And thank you all! PS. The starter was not assembled incorrectly as well as totally dirty inside. The PO or whoever had the spring that returns the bendix on the axle the bendix slides on. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 10:02pm
|
Meant to say the starter was incorrectly assembled. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-25-2017 at 11:10pm
|
It's a 351 Windsor Pleasurecraft (PCM) or Commander are 2 of the companies that marinized the 351W. There are others also. Regular automotive chain and gears. They get replaced as a set. Plenty of brands from your local parts places or thru the internet. Either silent or double roller chain are reasonably priced. I think in the Common Qestions section somebody explains how to post pictures or you can do a search here on CCF and find some good explanations. |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:40am
 This is a big ole hole in the block me thinks. I have to source a harmonic balancer removal doodad and then take a closer look. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 4:38am
|
That is broken and looks like it has leaked for a while. Cloyes is a well known Timing Set manufacturer. Fel-Pro is the most trusted name for the Gaskets. There is a company called Lock n Stitch that has been fixing blocks and heads for years with a proven process. If you have access and can drill holes into the cracked area Lock n Stitch products will pull the broken parts back together and permanently seal it. They were headquartered in Turlock CA. If you don't have access to drill and install the lock n stitch the engine will need to come out. At that point it might be cheaper to find a donor block replacement. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 7:25am
|
I'm having a hard time visualizing where the crack is. Is it in the cover or block? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:37am
|
I'm having a hard time figuring out the picture too
|
Posted By: scootdogydog
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:44am
|
tough to decipher, but I believe the crack that is being shown is in the block just aft of the timing cover. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7183" rel="nofollow - 1999 Python 1980 Ski Tique 1968 Mustang WIP |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:11am
|
Looks to me as though the pic is upside down and behind the alternator ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:33am
| Yep, if it was right side up it would be looking at the timing cover from the front and the crack is on the front face of the block just to the left of the timing cover above the "Marine only" ear cast into the left side for the RWP mounting pcm style. |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 11:17am
Hmmm Doesnt help me much. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 11:40am
|
That's not right side up. Now the right hand side of the photo is "UP". Everyone besides PCM put the alternator on the drivers side of the motor. |
Posted By: scootdogydog
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:01pm
|
Pete will soon chime in and advise you to JB-weld that crack and see if there is an internal crack or not. But, I wouldn't be concerned about an external crack there. However, it might be a clue that there is an internal crack that would have caused your milky oil. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=7183" rel="nofollow - 1999 Python 1980 Ski Tique 1968 Mustang WIP |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 12:40pm
here it is bottom side down for Zach 
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 1:10pm
 Here's a wider angle. Don't know how the image got flipped. Anyway, I'll need that balancer off to see the extent of the damage. Is JB welding it and rechecking a bad idea? I've seen the LockNStitch stuff on Jay Leno's classic car site and I like it. I'm off to the city to work for a few days then back at it on Sunday. And again, really appreciate the interest and help. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 1:12pm
|
Balancer off so I can remove the timing cover to see the damage. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:38pm
|
It's my "guess" that there are other issues also. Crack like that don't just happen. There is a reason. Possibly more problems that have not come to light yet. You may be block shopping. JMO ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:43pm
|
I concur, that engine is fragged, i wouldn't waste a moment with it. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 2:54pm
|
Out of curiosity where was the freeze plug that was popped in relation to the crack you have? I'd still get it running on the hose for a while like 10 minutes or so and let that crack in the block leak and see how the water in the oil situation is. But in the last picture, it looks like you already have the circulating pump off of the timing cover so maybe you'll want to continue with getting the timing cover off Not looking to promising at all right now though, I figure there's at the least a new block in your future |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:14pm
  If you're going to have a hole in your block, have a big one! There is a section of gasket missing in the same spot on the timing cover which could explain the water in the sump. There is a machine shop with an expert welder with some special welder that welds cast metal? Not sure what it all means yet. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:21pm
|
Also the casting plug the blew was the center one on the same side as the hole. Does that say something? ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:30pm
Yea, it says get another block. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:50pm
|
The smart thing would be to get another block or engine. If you want to keep the engine as a reverse rotation engine you'll need a 351W block with a 2 piece rear main seal so you can use the reverse rotation crank.you have now. Lots of things to think about, lots of different routes you could go but every one of those probably should include a new block and no repair jobs on the one you have You may have other internal cracks or big holes you can't see. By the way that's a nice picture of the nylon coated cam gear that was original back then. It looks to have all of it's teeth and in good shape too. Probably means the engine doesn't have too many hours on it. You'll probably get lots of suggestions on what to do, so take your time, decide what you're comfortable spending and what engine work you're comfortable doing and remember again, you're working with a reverse rotation engine. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 9:54pm
I have to agree that the most logical is a new block. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-26-2017 at 10:04pm
|
I'm going to repair this block with my skills and Belzona 1111. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-27-2017 at 3:57am
|
I have never seen one break where yours broke. They usually break in the middle along the sides. I am betting if that part broke due to freeze you have other fractures in other places. Find a new block. Sorry. ------------- |
Posted By: MechGaT
Date Posted: October-27-2017 at 10:27pm
|
Besides the block, it's a nice looking Martinique. ------------- '92 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-27-2017 at 10:37pm
|
Belzona, that's some kind of moisturizing facial creme isn't it? Good luck, hope the rest of the engine is good Hope your skills are good too
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-27-2017 at 11:24pm
|
Thanks guys. Thanks for the laugh Mr.Keno! I needed that. It may be a week before I have a result to post. Face cream, good one. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-27-2017 at 11:41pm
|
When you think about it, it may not be the textbook best surefire way to cure your problem, but what do you have to lose except a little time and money on that expensive face cream. Once again.................good luck Your cooling system sees about 20 psi at high rpm's, just so you have an idea of the pressure involved. Don't forget, cleanliness and preparation is the key. And....................There's no H after the preparation
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 12:31am
|
Well, actually preparation H makes for a good face cream. It has properties that shrink the bags under the eyes. So... I don't actually have a point. But, yes, I've nothing to lose. Might use a cheaper option to perform the miracle. Info on the pressure is valuable. I see the port on the timing cover is blocked. Can you describe the water's path through the engine from intake to exhaust? ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 5:45am
|
Take a few minutes and read up on lock n stitch products. I have seen first hand how well they work putting cast iron back together . They repair thousands of engines per year. Most are commercial applications in very expensive equipment. You drill a hole though your crack, insert their plug and then screw a special bolt into their plug. As you tighten the bolt it sucks the crack area tight and then snaps off leaving a flush surface. Sounds odd but is proven technology. There must be Utubes of it being applied.. I first saw it almost 30 years ago. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 7:27am
Mark, I have first hand experience with the Lock n Stitch and don't feel is a good option at this time. It's too much work and cost considering there's the unknown of other block damage ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 9:00am
I'm not sure what port you're talking about on the timing cover but the flow path for the water is from the raw water pump to the thermostat housing. From there some goes out the exhaust and some goes into the circulating pump and into the block through 2 ports on the timing cover. It enters the front of the block on each side and then goes up through the heads and comes out the front of the heads into the water passage in the intake manifold that leads to the thermostat housing. There is a water passage on the back of the heads but it is blocked by the intake manifold which has no passages for water in the back. It was designed this way so that either head can be used on either side of the engine. In the thermostat housing there is mixing happening when the thermostat is open with some of the water going to the exhaust and some back through the circulating pump to start the path through the engine again. So.... you always have water going through the exhaust manifolds and when the thermostat is not fully closed you have water flow through the engine When the thermostat is closed you'll have an engine full of water being heated up till the thermostat opens and flow starts This would be for the typical small block Ford marine engine that has no bypass hole around the thermostat. Many times people get confused and think that the thermostat is what lets water into the engine but as you can see it lets hot water out of the engine A picture of what's blocked would be good
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 11:27am
|
Thanks for that explanation of the water cycle. Actually I was seeing something in one of the pictures that looked like a plug of some sort but now I think it's just the way the rust has discolored the port. Nothing is blocked. I;m away from the boat now. I have some ideas for the repair, this is the one I'd like opinion on: Use parafin wax to fill just the area behind the hole to be used as a casting substance. Build on that using an epoxy to repair. Start the engine and as it heats it slowly melts the wax which emulsifies and safely shoots out the exhaust? ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 11:33am
| Just fill the cooling passages with cement. No more leaks. More heat = more power. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 11:36am
|
William, Before going with the wax idea, I suggest seeing how the broken piece fits back into the block. Get the edges of the break as clean as possible and then epoxy the piece back in. Some grinding of the edge may be needed and slightly V the outside edges. You've been watching too many Utube videos! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 11:51am
|
I think you've been sniffing too much Preparation H myself The really amazing thing though is me and Pete agreeing on how to do a backyard hack repair on your block. Assuming the piece came out as 1 piece, epoxy that sucker in and reinforce over it with more epoxy.and maybe some reinforcing fabric. After it's dry, hook up the water say 3 quick prayers of your choice and turn the key and see what happens |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 12:33pm
Old drag racing trick http://www.hardblok.com/" rel="nofollow - Hardblock ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 12:38pm
Then go and get yourself another block. ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 1:57pm
|
Aw c'mon Duane Give him some hope
|
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 3:34pm
|
JB Weld. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens 2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 6:27pm
Ken, Keep in mind I said the following back a few posts:
But Ken, William sure seems bent on getting the engine running in hopes of determining if the block is damaged in other places. Now, I did suggest epoxying the piece back in hopes of getting him off the more complicated method of rebuilding the piece with the wax etc.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 7:57pm
|
We all agree on the best route to go being a new block and it seems to me the wax thing would be a disaster.
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-28-2017 at 8:30pm
But just think of all the things we could do and make if we first got an idea off Pinterest and then watched youtube on how to build it!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-29-2017 at 3:33am
|
I can handle the ridicule. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-29-2017 at 10:10am
|
So...........was it one big piece that broke? If it was just epoxy it back like what has been mentioned by me and that other hack named Pete
|
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-29-2017 at 12:40pm
|
It came out in several small pieces. My latest plan is to use a piece of metal screen that has 1/2 inch openings as a sort of rebar with marine epoxy. It's going to work. I'm thinking, we've sent men to the moon, I can repair this little hole. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: MechGaT
Date Posted: October-29-2017 at 11:29pm
|
I think this sounds like a great experiment we could all learn something from. ------------- '92 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: October-30-2017 at 11:38am
Only reason its gone this far is everyone is bored and bit punchy each fall after the boats get out of the water.  ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-30-2017 at 8:47pm
  ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-30-2017 at 9:21pm
|
William, Is that the moisturizing face cream Ken suggested or did you go with his other idea of using Preparation H? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-30-2017 at 9:24pm
|
Now that looks like one small step for mankind And..............Good luck Mr Gorsky wherever you are PS paint it blue |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: October-30-2017 at 11:06pm
|
Anozleb is what you need, specially formulated for reverse rotation ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 5:02am
|
Is that epoxy or fiberglass? Fire it up! ------------- |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 9:27am
|
I hope it works. I like to see people try this kind of thing. I myself probably would not but I am certainly hoping it works out. Good luck! ------------- 2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 10:46am
|
God Bless you... and good luck. I would have tossed that thing PDQ and used it an excuse to build more horsepower. The wife would never know the difference, Parts is parts to her and they all cost money.. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 11:44am
| I hope it works perfectly and the rest of the block is ok and you use it for years with that patch ha. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 12:50pm
| Let's get some pressure on that patch and see how it and the rest of the engine are doing |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 2:22pm
|
Thanks for the poz vibes. Scraping the old gasket was more of a P.I.T.A. then building the patch. I ordered a new gasket set and had it sent to my other spot so I wouldn't be able to test the boat till Sunday. But, I cant wait. Going to Oreilly now and buy another one. More in a few hours..... oh, the patch is JB marine epoxy stick. I pressed a lip in all around the inside perimeter hopefully holding it in place. The stuff has more strength than 20psi which I believe is the pressure in the water jacket. 900 degrees max temp load. I won't be surprised if it doesn't hold. I just wanted to try something before just giving up without any attempt. I can be defeated, but I don't give up. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: MourningWood
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 3:16pm
| Sent you a PM... |
Posted By: stepper459
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 4:21pm
Sounds like a great experiment. You really appear to have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. I can't wait to see what happens... A few years back I bought an old Supra for about $1,000 because the engine was making a milkshake after the owner "thought he winterized it right...." but it turned out, the only crack was a tiny one in the intake manifold exactly under the gasket. He was using a garden hose hooked up to the boat to run it on the trailer, and the extra pressure of the house water system must have been enough to break the seal. I'm pretty sure that engine is still running, in a friend's '86 Nautique. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 4:42pm
I don’t see the evidence of how you suspect the Water got in the Oil? That big external hole wouldn’t do it, obviously. Interesting project but I still think the block is junk- Water is coming in from skmewhere that hasn’t been addressed yet... should have filled it with concrete!
|
Posted By: fgroce
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 9:20pm
|
Just a thought, before you turn the key, Right now you very well could have a good crank, rods, cam for a Reverse rotation engine. You run the motor and fill it up with water while it is running you may kill it off. I think prudence would be to save the good parts and use on a new block. I do believe that you will have more than that one hole in the block. Good luck. ------------- FGroce 88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-31-2017 at 11:33pm
|
I'm sure he's not going to run it that long and hopefully not under a heavy load,he should be fine. It's antifreeze that will tear up bearings ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: William777
Date Posted: November-01-2017 at 12:16am
|
Mr. TRBenj, you're concrete comments are not welcome or amusing, thanks. So I got the whole thing back together and kicked it over and it ran for a few seconds at a time, then the carburetor caught on fire. So tomorrow I'm gonna check it out for stuck floats etc. Last time it ran for the same amount of time and water was pouring out of the spot where the hole was. It didn't just now but I know that's not the big test. Thanks for the constructive comments. ------------- 1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-01-2017 at 12:36am
|
Carb likely flooding and timing or firing order off - keep the fire extinguisher handy and try not to die but cranking it over again will usually put out the fire. The flame arrestor wont hurt either. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |