"Blown" Ford 351 |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Here are your pictures
You must have a Commander engine because a PCM would have the raw water pump right in that area. That leak looks like it on the timing cover where it bolts to the front of the engine. That's a water passage thru the cover from the circulating pump to the block If it's a gasket leak you're getting luckier maybe. Water can get into the oil thru the timing cover too. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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William,
Congratulations. You are making some progress. Hopefully the leak is simple and you'll have that engine running soon. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Here's a picture of the backside of the timing cover and you see one water passage. It's the thumb sized hole about 2 inches below my thumb
If the gasket is bad you can leak water externally like you're seeing and you can leak water into the timing chain area too and it's a real easy path to the oil sump from there. With the cover removed you can look down into the front of the sump. Hopefully just a gasket issue and no cracks To remove the cover and replace the gasket you can get a timing chain gasket set pretty cheap I'd replace the timing chain at the same time while the cover is off. Back in 78 they were using nylon coated aluminum gears that liked to throw chunks of nylon off and make for some erratic camshaft timing |
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Thats's a great shot of the cover. Looks exactly like the spot the water is coming from, How do you post the pictures? I looked at Amazon for a gasket set and saw Windsor V8 and Cleveland but no Commander? The engine sounded AMAZING for the 10 seconds it ran. I also see many different brands for timing chains. Recommendations? And thank you all! PS. The starter was not assembled incorrectly as well as totally dirty inside. The PO or whoever had the spring that returns the bendix on the axle the bendix slides on.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Meant to say the starter was incorrectly assembled.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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It's a 351 Windsor
Pleasurecraft (PCM) or Commander are 2 of the companies that marinized the 351W. There are others also. Regular automotive chain and gears. They get replaced as a set. Plenty of brands from your local parts places or thru the internet. Either silent or double roller chain are reasonably priced. I think in the Common Qestions section somebody explains how to post pictures or you can do a search here on CCF and find some good explanations. |
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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This is a big ole hole in the block me thinks. I have to source a harmonic balancer removal doodad and then take a closer look.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3620 |
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That is broken and looks like it has leaked for a while.
Cloyes is a well known Timing Set manufacturer. Fel-Pro is the most trusted name for the Gaskets. There is a company called Lock n Stitch that has been fixing blocks and heads for years with a proven process. If you have access and can drill holes into the cracked area Lock n Stitch products will pull the broken parts back together and permanently seal it. They were headquartered in Turlock CA. If you don't have access to drill and install the lock n stitch the engine will need to come out. At that point it might be cheaper to find a donor block replacement. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I'm having a hard time visualizing where the crack is. Is it in the cover or block?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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I'm having a hard time figuring out the picture too
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scootdogydog
Senior Member Joined: November-03-2013 Location: Central MA Status: Offline Points: 404 |
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tough to decipher, but I believe the crack that is being shown is in the block just aft of the timing cover.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Looks to me as though the pic is upside down and behind the alternator
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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Yep, if it was right side up it would be looking at the timing cover from the front and the crack is on the front face of the block just to the left of the timing cover above the "Marine only" ear cast into the left side for the RWP mounting pcm style.
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6114 |
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Hmmm Doesnt help me much.
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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That's not right side up. Now the right hand side of the photo is "UP".
Everyone besides PCM put the alternator on the drivers side of the motor. |
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scootdogydog
Senior Member Joined: November-03-2013 Location: Central MA Status: Offline Points: 404 |
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Pete will soon chime in and advise you to JB-weld that crack and see if there is an internal crack or not.
But, I wouldn't be concerned about an external crack there. However, it might be a clue that there is an internal crack that would have caused your milky oil. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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here it is bottom side down for Zach
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Here's a wider angle. Don't know how the image got flipped. Anyway, I'll need that balancer off to see the extent of the damage. Is JB welding it and rechecking a bad idea? I've seen the LockNStitch stuff on Jay Leno's classic car site and I like it. I'm off to the city to work for a few days then back at it on Sunday. And again, really appreciate the interest and help.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Balancer off so I can remove the timing cover to see the damage.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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It's my "guess" that there are other issues also. Crack like that don't just happen. There is a reason. Possibly more problems that have not come to light yet. You may be block shopping. JMO
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3337 |
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I concur, that engine is fragged, i wouldn't waste a moment with it.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Out of curiosity where was the freeze plug that was popped in relation to the crack you have?
I'd still get it running on the hose for a while like 10 minutes or so and let that crack in the block leak and see how the water in the oil situation is. But in the last picture, it looks like you already have the circulating pump off of the timing cover so maybe you'll want to continue with getting the timing cover off Not looking to promising at all right now though, I figure there's at the least a new block in your future |
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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If you're going to have a hole in your block, have a big one! There is a section of gasket missing in the same spot on the timing cover which could explain the water in the sump. There is a machine shop with an expert welder with some special welder that welds cast metal? Not sure what it all means yet. |
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Also the casting plug the blew was the center one on the same side as the hole. Does that say something?
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Yea, it says get another block. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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The smart thing would be to get another block or engine.
If you want to keep the engine as a reverse rotation engine you'll need a 351W block with a 2 piece rear main seal so you can use the reverse rotation crank.you have now. Lots of things to think about, lots of different routes you could go but every one of those probably should include a new block and no repair jobs on the one you have You may have other internal cracks or big holes you can't see. By the way that's a nice picture of the nylon coated cam gear that was original back then. It looks to have all of it's teeth and in good shape too. Probably means the engine doesn't have too many hours on it. You'll probably get lots of suggestions on what to do, so take your time, decide what you're comfortable spending and what engine work you're comfortable doing and remember again, you're working with a reverse rotation engine. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I have to agree that the most logical is a new block. |
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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I'm going to repair this block with my skills and Belzona 1111.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3620 |
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I have never seen one break where yours broke. They usually break in the middle along the sides. I am betting if that part broke due to freeze you have other fractures in other places. Find a new block. Sorry.
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MechGaT
Senior Member Joined: March-09-2015 Location: Chattanooga Status: Offline Points: 271 |
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Besides the block, it's a nice looking Martinique.
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'92 Sport Nautique
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