Rudder / Prop depth |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Posted: August-15-2017 at 12:19pm |
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Hello to all-
I am modifying an existing trailer to accept a 1979 Southwind 18 w/ 351 and am needing to know how deep past the bottom of the hull the prop / rudder parts hang. Does anyone know that dimension offhand? |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Per the brochure, draft is listed at 27"
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Sorry; I do not think I'm communicating well -- I am needing to modify my trailer or bunks to accomodate the rudder & prop of our inboard design -- the trailer came originally from an I/O FourWins boat. It proved impossible to find an affordable trailer for an inboard so modification to existing it is!
The dimension I am seeking is between the bottom of the hull 'A' and the lowest point of machine - which would be the propr or rudder 'B' -- and the dimension X is what I'm seeking. I am a professional MS paint graphic designer btw =) |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I would just measure it myself today but the boat is dry docked about two hours South of where I live. If I can't confirm the dimension then I'll day-trip down there this weekend and float under the boat in a tube to get the measurement! =P
I know this isn't the normal kind of post for this site and I'm doing this all unconventionally -- I just really wanna get out on the water this season! I appreciate any insight that can be offered. |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I don't believe that measurement will help you at all. You need the measurement from where the boat sits on the trailer i.e. the chine to the bottom of the rudder. That will then take into consideration how deep the V in the bottom of the boat is. All correct crafts that have the same rudder would have the same measurements because you are only measuring that
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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When you get right down to it, it's pretty normal, no such thing as not normal on here |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Yes!
No! The vee hull boat trailers do not support the vee hulls at the chine, the wishbone cc #4 catches the Bfn/SW just under the outer strakes. A bunked trailer may support the hull even lower. Bottom line, you're going to need a bunch of measurements of the hull, and have a plan for where the bunks will support the hull (width) in order to know how high you'll want to place them. |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I knew this would be a challenge =) I've been googling boat-words as they've come up and wikipedia is explaining most adequately -- but what is a strake? Is that the little bumps before the chine-line? I'm imagining you mean having a bunk where I put the red circle below - |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Yes, those are (lifting) strakes. Assuming the SW hull is common with the Bfn, the 2 sets of outer strakes extend full length, the inner ones end near the pylon. You want your bunks to end up between the strakes- not on top of them. Make sure the bunks are spaced properly and parallel (not tapered) to adhesive this.
The chine is the feature that runs along the intersection of the hull walls and hull bottom. |
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stepper459
Senior Member Joined: June-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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If you're looking to permanently modify the trailer, then definitely you want exact measurements and then of course still build in some room for error.
If you're looking for an approximate measurement of "X" as you drew above, you'd be safe to assume 20" there. The prop isn't more than 16" diameter at the very most. Add some space between it and the hull, and maybe it's 20" to the bottom of the prop. You want some extra room there, though, so let's say 24" to the cross member on the trailer, if the hull were totally flat across. As others have pointed out, a lot depends on hull shape and where the hull is sitting on the bunks relative to the keel and the middle of the trailer, and all that. |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I spoke with the previous owner and they will be at their lake house / dry dock this weekend. I'll probably pull the trailer down there and float the boat around to get a sense of what I need to do. Below is the trailer -- it has a respectable V profile so I'm really hoping (maybe wishful thinking) I can use the bunks as they are by just notching the rear crossmember and replacing it with 3/8"x4" flat bar (made into a squared U shape with a few gusset peices...) to mimic some inboard trailers I've seen.
I would think it is mandatory to avoid putting bunk weight on or covering the raw water inlet -- but beyond this how vital do you guys think bunk placement really is? |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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You're going to have to raise those bunks close to a foot if you don't want to drag the prop on the ground. The Bfn/SW trailers are TALL. You may still need to notch the cross members.
Do southwinds have tracking fins like the Bfn/SN? |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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After reading through the above yeah - looks like a rather large lift up is needed. What do you guys think about using vertical 2x12 or larger boards? Like the kind sea boats seem to use a lot... Reinforcing 20" plus flat bunks may be a weeks-long project. WIth the vertical I can get brackets and cover boards -- then adjust them and bolt down at the ramp right in position, 2x12s + frame modification to the trailer may get me where I need to be- |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I think you are going to want to weld on some risers to support the bunks.
Maybe just get close with the risers & use adjustable bunk mounts for final fitment. Another plan would be to make temporary tall bunks, get the boat on the trailer, then jack the boat up so you can design something that fits well & is durable. 2X12s might parallelgram over once they start getting soft. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Greyson,
If you just used 2x12's in the vertical, you run the risk of them splitting unless as Chris mentioned they are supported with some steel almost to the tops. The ideal way to fit bunks to a boat is to hang the boat over the trailer and then build/adjust the bunks up to the hull bottom. |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I gave this a lot of thought last night while out in the shop -- I gotta agree on some kind of risers. The parallelogram effect thought it enough to dissuade me already haha... Is there an established design for this kind of riser-thing? The trailer has capacity well past the weight of the boat but I don't want to add too much sprung weight reinforcing if there is a classy and proven design strategy out there. My land-based strategy is usually to overbuild it with steel =) |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Makes me miss my old place with my natural engine hoist (the Oak variety.) |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Looking at the trailer and considering the lift I require got me to thinking about the way we used to lift old Jeeps -- the leaves on the trailer are below the axle so I may move those to above the axle. I'm sure the manufacturer would not condone such behavior of course -- but has anyone else made this change on a trailer with surge brakes? I can't imagine this is ragingly unsafe but someone here probably has a more data-driven point of view...
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No offense but sure seems like a lot of work for what you end up with,a modified four winns trailer ! If you end up liking the boat and trailering a bit still keep an eye out for an original trailer,they knew what they were doing when they made their own trailers for their own boats.
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Lol none taken; in fact I agree! I'm just hot to trot and want to get on the water. I'll trailer 100% of the time so if I can find an original I'm all about it. Travelling too far just isn't an option unless I borrow dad's truck. My tow rig is a 1976 Dodge M880 Power Wagon with full time 4x4 and 410s. Not exactly an out of town road trip type vehicle =) |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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mark c
Gold Member Joined: May-09-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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This is what an 87 BFN Trailer looks like under the boat (incase the Southwind shares the same hull)
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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The SW does share the same hull but that pic is misleading... the front and rear inner bunks are used for loading and actually aren't meant to support the hull (the #4DV trailers didn't even have them until '81). The outer bunks on the frame do all the heavy lifting and are probably most helpful to see- the rear inners don't actually touch the hull once loaded. That bunk trailer is going to be quite different from the cc wishbone in any case. A shot from the rear is probably most useful.
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mark c
Gold Member Joined: May-09-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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That was one I just had on my work PC. This is one of yours when you went to look at my BFN (the one I have now) in RI in 07.
It too dark to take a straight on rear one tonight, if I get a chance I'll try one in the AM. |
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mark c
Gold Member Joined: May-09-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Here's one straight on from the back. Bottom edge of Rudder is 13 3/4" from the keel pad on the hull, and 20" down from where the Bunks contact to bottom of the hull.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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I measured from the top of the bunks to the ground on a BFN trailer today.
Unloaded it was 29 inches while sitting pretty level. Mark's in the picture with the boat on it would probably be a little less. Also keep in mind that the Southwind didn't have the flat pad so the vee and the rudder stick down another couple of inches. I'd probably make the top of the bunks about 32 inches off the ground unloaded, not knowing how beefy your springs may or may not be. It would get you started and after the boat was on the trailer you could figure out if you wanted to lower it any after the initial trip with it.. His picture should give you plenty of insight as to where the bunks are located under the hull |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Here are a couple of pictures of Southwind's sitting on trailers.
The first one from Hollywood once again is either a picture of 3 Hooters girls with a boat in the background or a picture of the boat with 3 Hooters girls in front of it First one is a 20 footer, second an 18 like yours They'll give you an idea of how high the trailer bunks are |
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mark c
Gold Member Joined: May-09-2012 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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The top of my trailer side rails are almost exactly 24" off the ground when level front to back, Add the 1 1/2 for the thickness of the 2x4 bunk that gives you about 25 1/2" to 26" of height which places the bottom of the rudder about 5 1/2" to 6" off the ground.. Theres not a lot of space there (note my trailer does not (and never did have a prop guard),especially when you get a flat. That rudder drops down to about 2" off the ground then.
You've got to have a pretty tall tow vehicle (or a hitch with a good amount of rise to it) to pull a BFN level. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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One thing I don't remember being mentioned is the fore and aft position of the boat on the trailer.
Most direct drive inboards have the engine pretty much centered over the axle while IO's with the engine in the back have the axle more to the rear of the trailer to achieve the right balance. Looking at your pictures in this and the other thread, it looks like you could locate the engine over the axle and put on a bow stop once you have the tongue weight where you want it. I figure it'll take some experimenting to get things right.but you can make it all work |
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74Wind
Grand Poobah Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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Keno: i saw that Very Exact same GA SW (with the top in your last photo) for sale at a Hartwell GA used car lot a few years back, took photos but can't find...where are you, and why/how do you have that photo?
Here is my SW 18 trailer. PO set it up just perfect for the hull..and it trails so very well, at 70 mph it's quite easy to forget it's even back there, Ideally, not a big roller fan, but doesn't matter much to me....other than dragging it home empty for refurb (new hubs, paint, rollers, etc) not long ago, I never use it, can't remember when the last time boat was on it, 8? years ago maybe. Although.... i do visit it annually to put the new registration sticker on.. |
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10775 |
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Hi Jeff
You're gonna think it's like "deja vu all over again" It was from an old thread here on CCF that has your name in it quite a few times Here's a link to the old thread link The guy who bought the boat posted for 3 days and hasn't logged in since then |
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