No Super Sucker needed

My stop at Napa yesterday was primarily to get piston rings on order. I was pretty disappointed with my beloved Napa store. I'm getting the impression that it won't be too long before the sign out front is changed to read "Autozone"!!!

I went in with all the Hastings rings part numbers. This was after I called and spoke with Hastings tech service. I called because I couldn't find rings wide enough on their site to replace the original 3/16" wide rings. They make a oil control ring 3/16" but not a compression ring. I discussed with them the possibility of using ring spacers but the tech person felt it better to use two 3/32" ring per piston land. Purchases can't be made directly from Hasting without setting up a wholesale account so they told me any Napa would be a great choice.

Well, none of the Hastings numbers would cross over to the Napa numbers in their system. None of the numbers would even cross over in Napa's master distributor system as well! No good old books anymore so if it's not on the computer these days you're screwed!! Seems no one can get on the phone anymore and make a purchase without having the damn numbers in the computer!

The master distributor started from scratch and went back to bore size and ring width pulling up his own numbers. Surprisingly I do have rings coming in early next week but I'm going back in there with my dial calipers in hand! I also have no idea of the quantity I'll see. They were totally confused as to the "set" quantity being for 1 piston or a four cylinder engine and then thowing in the need for twice the amount of compression rings needed made it even worse. Considering the cost per set was $23, I think it's for 1 piston. I ordered two sets and will see when they come in. I may end up having to buy 6 more sets!

And people wonder why it costs so much to rebuild a engine. Of course it's obvious not many do anymore unless that engine is old and rare. My Napa closed down their machine shop in 2002. No business!

Before paying, I made sure that I could return the "special order" so it was noted I could on both the computer and the paper work.

Gary S wrote: 8122pbrainard wrote: Gary, It takes 7/8" threaded spark plugs. I understand that lots of old tractors used them. Our cubs use the same plugs Pete. We used to get them at Farm & Fleet,but not sure now,there is very little of "farm or fleet" left there. We use Champion D16's for normal use,D21's are used by some but it is a hotter plug. Napa will be your best bet,as you know.

Gary,
I just came from Napa after getting plugs. First, I was surprised they had them and then I thought the D-16's (old Champ # 8 COM) looked small and they are! Thank's for trying but it turns out your tractors use the next generation plug which is a 18mm plug and not the 7/8-18 thread Champion "W" series (old Champ 0,1,2 and 3 COM). I'll take the plugs back, guess at the heat range and get them to order some. So, the tap you have is probably the 18mm.

I remember the aquanaut, though they were neat at the time!

How did they keep the exhaust from getting sent to the diver?

Gary S wrote: Naw Pete I was thinking more of your Lawn Boy mower,your Johnson Skee-Horse and your Evinrude Aquanaut

Wow, that's going back a couple! I always wanted to try the Aquanaut but up north the lakes are pretty dark due to the orange tannins so no one had one.

You forgot a OMC product on your list. The Playmate. That's the small gull wing they used their outboard 90HP 2 stroke power head in hooked up to their out drive.

Keegan,
Well you got me thinking so I went and bought a parts washer! Bid on/won a 20 gal. with stand, drying tray and pump off ebay for $75 and only $8 for shipping. My shop is really set up for woodworking but I figured why struggle with a oil drain pan, solvent and a brush cleaning parts so I'm expanding into equipment more for engine rebuilding. This is the 4th engine (all flat heads) I've done but the previous 3 were done when I did have the luxury of having a parts washer at work. Now it's onto what will go into it.

At work we do use a citrus based cleaner in a production belt type aqueous washer that removes a grease based buffing compound. I'm going to have to sample a gal. of it and see how it works after playing with the water mix ratio. I'm on city sewer here so disposal won't be a issue. When the parts washer is moved up north then it will be a problem because I'm on a septic system. I'll need to look at spirits then.

Gary S wrote: Feeling guilty after all those years of running 2 strokes Pete ?

Gary,
What 2 strokes? The little 18 on the Alumacraft I grew up in?

Feeling guilty after all those years of running 2 strokes Pete ?   

Harbor Freight has a 20 gallon parts washer for around $180 bucks and a little 5 gallon for $45.

I am loving this history lesson Pete!

eric lavine wrote: i might Pete, I'll check today

Eric (and Gary),
No need to look for the tap. I made a "tap"! When I got the engine, someone had at one time made a lifting ring out of a old plug by removing the porcelain and welding a ring on it. It came with the engine so I chucked it up in the lathe and turned the shoulder on the body back a 1/2". This allowed the "tap" to enter the head all the way through to the other side. Then I got my Dremel out and put the cut off wheel in it. I ground "teeth" at right angles to the threads by cutting grooves across the threads. Worked great along with some Tap Magic. I did have to "resharpen it once - the cast iron is harder that the steel spark plug!!

Gary, Or anyone?
You mentioned a Flex-hone (ball hone). I'm going to order one and was wondering about the grit size. 240? 320?

Also, since you have the old tractors, you don't by chance have a 7/8-18 tap? I need to chase the threads in the head for the spark plugs!

I have been making some progress but with small things that really don't show much has been done. I spent lots of time this weekend with a good rough cleaning of most of the parts. Having the block and some other parts like the head, manifold, etc. boiled out is still a option. However, besides the cost of a couple hundred, I want to avoid the boil out because I don't really want to deal with the cam bearings. They need to be removed for boiling.

It's always amazing how much dirt and grime a old engine will accumulate. I wish I had a parts washer!!

Here's the cast pan which had about a inch of sludge in it. It was real fun to get under the splash lube pan which is part of the main pan. It's the concave raised section with the four grooves in it for the connecting rod caps. As the cap is rotated through standing oil in the groove, the oil is forced into the rod journal. Then, on the top of each rod are two holes that spray oil up into the cylinder, inside of the piston and the wrist pin.


On the right is the trans output shaft that's ready with the rebuild of the splines. The welding and regrind went smooth. Interestingly, when it was set up for grinding, one of the original splines was off .015"!! Guess someone wasn't watching the milling operation! On the left is the oil pump. It's not a rotary gear that you find now but rather a piston pump that runs off a eccentric on the cam. I've got some Kroil in it to see if I free it up.




I lapped the valves just to get a good indication of their condition. Regrettably, at least the intakes will need to be ground. Valves aren't that bad but all the intake seats are pitted. This thing defiantly when under sucking water through the carb. I've got a friend with a valve and seat grinder that has offered to lend it to me. I hope I can remember how to use it - been 30 years since I've ground a valve or seat!!!! This picture also is a good shot showing the #3 cylinder with the pitting and ridge left from when it had water sitting in it.


Close up of intake seat - foreground:


It's always funny how such a small engine can spread out and take up so much space!

I haven't welded up the grooves worn into the splines on the output shaft yet. Talking with the guys in the tool room, the subject of using hard face rod for the filler came up. They felt that the hard rod may flake off from any shock loading of the clutch plates. For our own info, we Rockwelled the original spline and it's soft! 35 on the C scale! So, the plan now is to weld up the grooves with stainless rod and then regrind the splines.

Eric,
Thanks for the phone numbers. I've written them down just in case.

My plan is to recondition the shaft splines and then see how the plates fit. I don't feel blanchard grinding is needed. I cleaned up the stack last evening and held them up to the light. Couldn't see any warpage in the plates. I'll also lay them down on the granite to check as well.

How far back in years does Paragon go? I know even though marine engine manufacturers would call their trans's their own, many did use the purchased paragon internals. But, who copied who??

Ive even put those plates on a blanche grinder and skimmed a couple of thousandths off them, I believe TMI still has those plates 800-462-8848 or glpp 440-951-5111, i also flip them and remember square corners. but i think if you repair the hub and thats it, you'll get another 25 years from them....rebuilding is a loose term, clean and paint

Pete,Ball hones can be used in place of what you have,for reasons Lewey has said.
Also check here Egge Machine Company they do babbitting and I believe they make pistons,anyway some good reading.