Rebuilding 351W |
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clibat2
Groupie Joined: May-21-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Posted: June-23-2010 at 3:49pm |
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Took the boat out on the water after getting it to start in the driveway. It ran great and sounded great. The only issue I am having is at the top end. After running around slowly for 1/2 hour to give it some break-in time, I started to open it up and the boat topped out at about 35 MPH. There was more RPM left in the motor, but it wouldn't make me move any faster. Not sure why yet, but overall the major hurdles seem to be over. Thanks for all help provided!!
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Candlewood Lake, Western Connecticut
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tommer12
Senior Member Joined: February-05-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 366 |
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Did you figure out how to time the protech? I had to pull mine out when I did my intake and Im pretty sure I will have to retime it. It sounds like if you get it close, then plug it back in, it will auto adjust it to the correct time correct?
I know, it should be replaced.. but it works for now... so I will run with it. Thanks! |
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84 SN, 92 SNOB, 2005 SANTE 2006 SN 206
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Luch, here is an article about Y blocks, and the issues they had.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Y-block_engine Mostly it wasn't really an issue with the cam's, but rather an issue with the oils used at the time, exacerbated by infrequent oil changes. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Luch, Two issues plagued the Y block but to what extent I don't know. Besides my own experience with my 312, I listen and learn from a group of Y block enthusiasts. Every year at one of our ACBS chapters wood boat shows, a group of Y block guys from the AACA (Antique Auto Club of America) show up with Thunderbirds, Mercurys and even Y block F100's. One year they spotted my marine 312 and ever since search me out and we talk Y block even if I'm not showing that boat that year!! The cam breakage information problem came from this group. One of them is a retired Ford engineer who actually worked on the design/production of the Y block. He said the breakage was extreamly low but when he moved on to the design of the FE block, Ford decided to be safe and move the distributor to the front. This removed lots of the cam center loading. Ford had done lots of experimenting with the cam manufacturing/production process but really never solved the breakage issue. The other issue was the routing of the oil. The Y block oil goes to the cam first and then to the rocker arms. If poor quality oil or oil changes not made on a timely basis, then the port from the cam to the rocker shaft would get plugged starving the rockers. This problem was infrequent as well but solved with external oil lines bypassing the area that was plugging. Kits are even available. So, disregard Tom's comment since getting the information first hand from a Ford design engineer is not a assumption!! |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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what's the problem with Y blocks?
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Pete, worry less about semantics, and assumptions, and more about what is posted.
I am far from a ford expert, but I know a bit about them and they have treated me well. I'm well aware that the "big switch", or actually switch BACK was when the FE's came out after the Y blocks. As far as why ford went back to a front mounted distributor, your reasoning may not be the exact reason the engineers that designed the motors would specify for going to different layout of the distributors. I grew up in a 67 390 FE cyclone GT convertible. The FE took the ideas from the Y block, and improved upon them. I've never had a Y block ford, but my Father has had a few. From what I have read and heard about Y blocks, I'm, glad I have not had one. Obviously the same specs would not be used on different brands of cams. The reason the point is now moot is that no new GM or Ford vehicles have distributors now. All are DIS, or Distributor-less Ignition Systems now. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tom, I'm confused!! you're asking me but you're supposed to be the Ford expert!! Y block to FE block was the big switch. It was the Y block that was breaking the cams. Do you actually have first hand experience with Y blocks? So, you're saying both Ford and GM outsourced their cams from the same source? Interesting concept! Same specs???? Tell me more about this source that makes my point "moot". What about Chrysler? |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Interesting, but when are you talking about year wise? Fords had front mounted before the Y blocks and those few flatheads then switched for a few years on some models, then went back to front mounted distributors. All of these manufacturers buy parts from many of the same places. It's hard to say that ford couldn't make the cam shafts good enough. It's a moot point anyway because they are all DIS now. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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thats the first post ever, showing some emotion towards Chevy's Pete....good for you
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tom,
Do you happen to know why Ford went to a front mounted distributor? I do!! Ford kept on snapping cam shafts because they couldn't make a quality shaft like GM could! Putting the distributor and oil pump drive forward they eliminated some of the mid cam loading. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Well, considering that around 98% (probably more than that even) of all fords were front mounted distributor, I would call it an odd ball.
It would be like an odd ball front dizzy on a gm V8. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I really wouldn't say 11 years of production of the "Y" block was "oddball". |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Yeah, I figured it HAD to be a Y block.
I only listed the only other rear mounted distributor fords I could think of. The cologne v6 and those couple of years of flatheads were odd balls ( for ford), along with the y block. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tom, Yes, it's a "Y" block but no it's not a flat head. A flat head wouldn't have valve covers!!! None were commercially marinized ether. |
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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Is that a Y block Pete?? Gotta be since it has 2 bolts where they are to hold the valve covers down.
Other than a y block, or a early 50's flathead I can't think of any other rear mounted distributors in ford V8's. I know the 2.8, 2.9 v6 cologne motors had rear mounted dizzys. One thing i can say about a rear mounted dizzy it hat on a full sized van, they are great because that is the only easy way to change plug wires. And you can do it in the rain and stay dry. Remove doghouse and go at it. Been there done that on a GM 350 and a dodge 360. |
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ford HAD a "better idea" A long..... time ago!!! Then they screwed up!!! And no Tom this is not a flywheel forward engine. Since you're such a big Ford guy, you should know exactly what the engine is! |
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clibat2
Groupie Joined: May-21-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Quinner... I launch in Brookfield. Once I'm in the water, I'm all over the lake. Got the boat started over the weekend. Ran it for a few seconds and shut it down. Next step is putting it in the water.. Crappy Northeast weather has put a damper on that though :(
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Candlewood Lake, Western Connecticut
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horkn
Platinum Member Joined: September-10-2007 Location: Cedarburg, Wi Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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No distributor belongs at the back of the motor. That's just plain wrong!
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78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior
GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Chris,
Can you say "Goosfraba" for me, LOL. OK ya goon, so would this conversion entail moving the distributer to the back of the motor where it belongs, LOL!! |
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kapla
Grand Poobah Joined: March-27-2008 Location: BA, Argentina Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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I like the good owle Chris!!!
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<a href="">1992 ski nautique
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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Well I guess I'm that one percenter that can read a wiring diagram and would use a gt40 distributor and get the job done to convert your EFI Pro-Tec system to a reliable ignition system and ditch the POS Pro-Tec system, But then I'm just a hobbiest so the F do I know. But you might try a search has it has been done all ready and posted on here as well. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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just an observation... did you replace or have your starter rebuilt?
If it was tired it might have problems turning the new engine over. |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Todd,
That's what I thought as well, EFI needs the Pro-Tec. When the Pro-Tech tanked on the Paragon (Carbed Pro-Boss) we did the conversion kit Chris mentioned and IMO it ran stronger then new with the Pro-Tec. |
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weitekampt
Senior Member Joined: July-08-2006 Location: Fisher, IL Status: Offline Points: 457 |
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No, I am 99% sure you need the ProTech. This is why I can't buy a new ProTec system. SkiDim saves them for the injected guys.
Wanna buy one for me clibat2!! |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Chris,
Can you ditch the Pro-Tech on the EFI motors? Cliff, Where you at on Candlewood? my family has a place at Holiday Point. |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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the correct one which took me all of thrity seconds to find. 1993 manual.
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clibat2
Groupie Joined: May-21-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Whoa chill out! I tried. There are 6 different manuals that might help, and I looked through them... I have a 1995 Sport Nautique with the PCM EFI and what is out in the manuals section that "might" help?
1995 Owner's Manual PCM 302 and 351 Engine Manual PCM Service Manual PCM Pro Boss GT-40 Service Manual Ford 302 and 351 Marine Service Manual PCM Engine Manual (1993) There are thousands of unsearchable pages throughout this group of manuals. When I do find info in the index, I go to that page, and it starts talking about distributer engines. I wish there was 1 clear manual for my setup, but it doesn't seem to exist. I hear you on ditching the ProTec.. It may happen someday, and hopefully before I am dead on the water! As for right now though, I've dumped enough money on this bear the last 2 seasons, and the only thing I didn't have to replace was the ignition system. It has been working great for me even at the ripe old age of 15! Exactly WHICH manual would you suggest I look at for initial timing setting for this setup :) |
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Candlewood Lake, Western Connecticut
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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My advice is READ THE DAMN PCM MANUAL. It is clearly stated how to set the system and that base timing has to be set as well as verifiing the timing at 700 and 2200. All of this information is in the referance section if you would just look that is why it is there, to read and use to repair and tune the different engines. I just don't understand why people can be so lazy and not look at the Manauls for simple questions. FYI the protect is not self adjusting, it will adjust the timing according to the engine's needs but it has to be set correctly before it will function correctly. FYI ditch the ProTec now and get a distributor from MyCorrectCraftParts.com before the protec tanks on you. |
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clibat2
Groupie Joined: May-21-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Okay, almost done. The engine and tranny are together and it is on the mounts in the boat. Help me a little with timing here if you could. Does it matter where the interrupter assembly starts? I have the motor at TDC, and can easily line up a distributer with spark plug 1, but of course I don't have a ditributer on this Pro Tech setup. I'm reading in some places that it self-adjusts. Any advice on setting initial timing on a Protech TBI?
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Candlewood Lake, Western Connecticut
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clibat2
Groupie Joined: May-21-2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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A new Harmonic balancer is now being shipped. I guess the 3 bolt blancer (which i have) is more expensive than buying a new pulley with 4 bolt holes and the 4 bolt balancer. I was told by SkiDim that they are the same thing, so i ordered the 4 bolt pulley/balancer from them. Should have them Friday.
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