ZDDP Question

phatsat67 wrote: VR1 when wiping the cam Joe? Do they install some pretty healthy springs down at Tristate?

Triple springs if I remember correctly. 20 20 hindsight should have checked against my cam card spring specs. I had thought that since I had a broken in cam and ran the VR oil I'd be ok. This will be next summers project. Will do as Joe says with the dial indicator and will go from there.

VR1 when wiping the cam Joe?

Do they install some pretty healthy springs down at Tristate?

Did a little more research.    Achieves 5,000PPM if whole bottle used w/4 .5 qts oil

Lucas TB Zinc Plus

I started using Cenpeco 15w40 in the flat tappet solid lifter hemi since the rebuild, not much forgiveness on a valve train there. Todd W turned me onto this stuff, It's not a off the shelf product but he gets it through a dealer (sort of like amzoil products) and uses it for all his farm equipment. The 15w40 has 1600 ZDDP.   Cenpeco 15w40

I had always used the Vr-1 20w50 in the 81 nautique and to be honest with you I never liked it, It was a little slow to the top of the motor when cold and I never felt the 50 was required so finding the Cenpeco 15w40 with 1600 ZDDP to me is exactly the right combination. It ain't cheap but neither is rebuilding a vintage motor.

What are the symptoms of a wiped lobe on a cam? The ticking noise in the Mustang since I put the P heads on seems to be getting louder. I've adjusted /checked lifter preload several times. In the back of my mind I question the triple springs Tri State installed and wonder if they could be a cause?

Riley wrote: When I say more modern, I'm comparing an 80's vintage to an antique like the early '60's 170 ci IL six in our Mustang. .

The key point in the importance of the zinc is not the actual age but if the engine has flat tappets or not.

Still another option

Someone here at work wiped a cam and tappet on a fairly modern looking 5-valve Audi turbo

Curiously, they ran non-roller systems longer than i thought anyone should have.

Bruce, if your engine spec calls for 10w-30 you would be completely fine to use that (bearing clearances dictate oil viscosity selection). Stepping +/- 10 either direction shouldn't make a big different but going 30w to 50w is completely useless.

Rotella as far as anyone can tell continues to have 1200 PPM ZDDP which is completely fine for flat tappet engines. If they ever reduce it below 1200 then you need to start raising an eyebrow at using it in a flat tappet engine especially one with a larger cam spec/heavier valve springs.

If 1200PPM wasn't fine there would be tons and tons of people crying about wiped camshafts online. I doubt many marinas even know what ZDDP is and care to check the content of the oil they order in drums to use for services and you don't hear about people experiencing camshaft/lifter failure.

Anyone who has wiped a flat tappet camshaft (That is already broken in) please let us know what type of oil you were using.

I doubt any forum goers are dumping 50w oil into their car/truck engines when it calls for 30w.

88 has a flat tappet cam and should not be considered more modern. Oil recommendations from 30+ years ago are not necessarily appropriate considering the changes made in oil technology over that time period. Yes, 30w rotella has less zddp in it now than it used to. I use it in my tractor but that’s it.

Was running VR1 when the cam wiped. Sometimes sht happens even when you do everything by the book. Not worth the chance to push your luck here imho.

Be very careful comparing modern oils with those from the 80’s and 90’s. With modern roller cams and increasing emissions requirements, most of the “good stuff” needed for our older flat tappet engines has been removed from most oils, including the latest diesel specific ones. I’d need to recheck the specs on the various rotella types/grades, they reduced their ZDDP content fairly significantly (and quietly) about 10 years ago. I know VR1 and M1 15w50 continue to be safe choices.

Saving a few bucks on oil sure would be nice, but having wiped out a ft cam, the $10/change saved is not worth it to me.

Dang, 2000 miles. Count me sold.

My customers through the 80's and 90's were production engine builders.
Combined the built close to 3,000 engines per month.
Was asked to help diagnose hundreds of engine failures.
Never witnessed an engine failure due to the brand of oil used.
Lack of oil changes or lack of oil I did see many times.
Dirty oil and running when low on oil does cause failure.
The modern Diesel oils still have protection in them that will protect your old flat tappet camshafts. Walmart has this in three brands for well under $20 a gallon.
Most is in 15-40W.
Nothing against all the modern racing oils like Joe Gibbs offering. If I decide to run 8,000 RPM I'll buy it but for my boat that rarely exceeds 5,000 RPM I'll run Delo, Rotella or any other brand that meets modern Diesel specs.

I prefer Rotella 15-40 in my Fords. Between all of the Ford Flat tappet engines we have had over the years we have most likely logged 3000+/- hours of run time using this oil.

The valve spring pressure/ramp rates/lift of a stock camshaft really should be perfectly fine at 1200 PPM. I even run it in my car which has much more wild camshaft specs and very high spring pressure with no issue.

I also prefer to run the 40W spec rather than 50W as the 40 has much better flow than a 50. Yes, 50 will thin out less in extreme temperature situations but within correct temp spec all it does is increase oil pressure and pump effort and reduce over all flow.

If the engine tolerances are set up for 40w and it stays within a proper temperature range it offers all the protection you will ever need. Also, additives are a nono. Lucas oil stabilizer is just a high viscosity base stock with no additives. It purely increases viscosity. You would be better off running VR-1 20-50.

Big Block Chevy engines really like to heat oil up unless running a cooler so the 20w-50 would be my choice for a BBC. Fords get 15w40. The Mobile 50W is a great choice if you want to go the synthetic route. Mobile would be my choice in a freshly build Big Block Chevy.

Some people think the 1200 PPM isn't enough but in my (and many many others) experience it is perfectly fine to protect the tame flat tappet camshafts that come in the stock engines. So, nobody is really "sacrificing" or "going the cheap route" by using this oil.

Long and the short of it. If you use Rotella 15-40 you'll be fine. If you use VR1 20-50 You'll be fine. If you use Mobile 15-50 You'll be fine.

oil threads and winterizing threads are by far my favorites on here....



john