Boat Dr. shell oil question

are you guys done beating this horse? I'm sure it's been dead for awhile now since your repeating your self's again.

The last two oils on the chats had the highest levels of ZDDP. But the chart said they were formulated for motorcycles. Is it possible that these two oils would have the right detergents to make them usuable in our boats? Also there were a couple oils they recommended for use with flat tappet cams, but they are fully synthetic. What is the opinion on those oils?

87BFN owner wrote: The last two oils on the chats had the highest levels of ZDDP. But the chart said they were formulated for motorcycles. Is it possible that these two oils would have the right detergents to make them usuable in our boats? Also there were a couple oils they recommended for use with flat tappet cams, but they are fully synthetic. What is the opinion on those oils?

James;
I really don't know about the motorcycle oils as you asked. I would think that they would work out fine in a flat tappet boat motor but I would assume that they would be pretty pricey. I do know that if I owned a bike that's the oil that I would be using though.

As far as the M1 15W-50 oil that they recommend for flat tappets; thats the only oil that I've been putting in my boat for over 15 years. I have absolutely no complaints. When I tore it down after 800 HR's to change the heads and intake, the lifter valley looked brand new.

I've said this before. I've been a devout Mobil 1 user for every 4-stroke engine that I've owned since 1983 and I won't ever run standard dino again. That's just me but I'm pretty biased.

Boat doc, i have never ever once said that zinc is not needed in oils, the way you are attacking this is you are trying to get your cheering section, which i assume are the guys you met in person at Green Lake and are trying to make them take sides and may put them in an awkward position. and you come across as to whatever you say is the bible and you guys need to live by it
you belittled me by telling me i should stick to transmissions and you let your cheering section know that you are probably smarter than me which maybe you are, a matter of fact i really think you are. you too are certified in many different areas which gives you credentials. I also told you i was certified in many areas Blah blah blah.
we are both grease monkeys and people look to us for sound advice because again we have been doing this for many years.
i dont own a Correct Craft.....niether does 79, why do you not attack him for that? probably because you met him in person.
I guess you have to be part of the elite group because now with that statement i feel like a third wheel.
As for me sticking to trannys you should stick to changing spark plugs as your certified to do,
I may at times come across as if im bragging as to i did this i did that,im certified at this im certified at that, all i am trying to do is convey experiences and mistakes and pass them along so maybe it will help one of you guy's out with a problem, for 24 years averaging 50 hours a week people pay me to rebuild thier engines or transmissions, they trust me to do so, over the years it adds up to many experiences, many problems and there is not to many things that dont get seen in those hours spent rebuilding both of the above.
over the years you see many cam failures and alot of assuming goes on. one particular was with a comp cam that failed to a point that it was almost a broomstick and of course i wondered why, you get alot of weekend warriers that come around to the shop telling you why it failed and you take that all in and try to figure out why it failed. any ways I called Comp cams and explained everything thing thier in house PE, (professional engineer) as Joe mentioned. he told me without seeing the cam that it was from improper break-in and the oil i was using. this was 3 years ago, i explained to him as i bragg to you guys that i built many engines and never seen this type of failure this bad and he once again insisted it was something i did. OK i reasoned with him because he sure the hell sounded like he knew what he was talking about...fine, ordered the identical cam with flats, completely dis-assembled the engine cleaned roughly a paint cap full of metal shavings, re-assembled and fired up the engine, the customer doesnt pay the labor or for the parts on the second cam so noe the out of pocket expences are adding up.
sure as sh*t 4 days later the car is on the back of a flat bed and guess what the problem was...a failed cam. sh*t i f-d up again after all i do this everyday for 24 years and i used the wrong oil again. needless to say the lifter bores on this engine for this year couldnt except the lift of the cam because the bores were not perpindicular, i found this out after the fact and it was an isolated problem that took alot of research to find out.
MY POINT once again Boat doctor, and maybe i have no frickin positive advice for this topic.
If you can answer me these 5 questions on cams or even you Tr, I will change my thinking on cam failures, i look at things logically and i KNOW ZINC IS F_IN NEEDED in oils for proper lubrication. I am not missing the point i highly recommend the use of zinc oils on flat tappet cams. a rebuilder tears things apart and looks for reasons... they dont speculate
    1- look at bowties picture and tell me why the cam is worn the way it is
    2- how many hours does it take to fail a cam once non-zinc oil is introduced
    3- what is the process used to harden cams and what rockwell are they
    4-how many hours should i expect out of a properly maintained cam
    5- why did TR have 2 failed cams in his engine

79nautique wrote: , I'm boycotting this thread now, run what you want and if the cam looses a couple lobes send it to Eric so he has proof or can positively identify the cause.

I will agree with chris on the boycott,end of post for the boat dr.

eric lavine wrote: If you can answer me these 5 questions on cams or even you Tr, I will change my thinking on cam failures, i look at things logically and i KNOW ZINC IS F_IN NEEDED in oils for proper lubrication. I am not missing the point i highly recommend the use of zinc oils on flat tappet cams. a rebuilder tears things apart and looks for reasons... they dont speculate     1- look at bowties picture and tell me why the cam is worn the way it is     2- how many hours does it take to fail a cam once non-zinc oil is introduced     3- what is the process used to harden cams and what rockwell are they     4-how many hours should i expect out of a properly maintained cam     5- why did TR have 2 failed cams in his engine

We are way beyond beating a dead horse here, but Ill answer anyways.

Just to clarify- it wasnt my motor that wiped 2 lobes, that was Munday. I dont have the answers to your questions Eric, but even if I did thats not the point. I agree that a good rebuilder will tear down the engine and try to determine the cause of failure without speculation. My stance is that I dont want to be tearing down my engine looking for reasons why it failed. Im going to do everything in my power to make sure it doesnt fail in the first place- which includes using oil with ZDDP in my flat tappets. Simple as that.

Hell ERIK we have to yank your chain every now and then

Good whiskey don't drink the hard stuff too often but had a couple CC's during the boat parade last Sat night.

Most all footing runs are above 3500 rpms. Some of this runs can be a considerable amount of time.

When I got my 73 skier in june, the first thing i wanted to do is put full synthetic in it because that's all i use in our cars. The mechanic said to use AMSOIL 15-W-40 MARINE/DIESEL. He said that in an automotive application the 302 engine held 5 quarts of oil with a filter, but in a marine application the usually hold around 4 quarts because the engine is tilted and installing too much oil will cause the crackshaft to splash into the crankcase oil and cause excessive crankcase pressure and rough idle.
The bottom line: Am I doing the right thing, I want nothing but the best oil in her.(AMSOIL 15W40 MARINE/DIESEL)?!?