Boat Dr. shell oil question

tr, you used a key word.....................................................................starvation which to me means....lack of, less than the others, starving, ..back to the begiining, not changing the oil enough or not checking the oil

Some engines are pretty tolerant of being starved of oil. We had a 93 Crown Vic that I bought new. It started using oil at about 40k. I could tell when it needed oil just by smelling the exhaust. At that point, it would not even show on the dip stick and would take as much as 4 quarts. It always ran good and we got rid of it after 14 years because the car was falling apart, not the engine.

eric lavine wrote: tr, you used a key word.....................................................................starvation which to me means....lack of, less than the others, starving, ..back to the begiining, not changing the oil enough or not checking the oil

I see what youre saying, but there are a lot of variables youre not considering. Oil pressure will not be exactly the same everywhere in the engine. The zinc in the oil is what allows it to "stick" a little better- which is especially important in metal-on-metal surfaces (like cam to flat tappet lifter). Clearly you can see the relationship here?

eric lavine wrote: i could come up with a thousand reasons why something failed, its called speculation speculation and hard evidence are 2 different words and have 2 different meanings

Speculation is speculation until they put a P.E. after your title then your speculation becomes the Failure analysis of record. Of course that doesn't make it any better of a speculation unless your in court arguing the matter but I digress...

The cam companies would come up with a thousand reasons why the failure occurred then conduct tests to eliminate most of them, chose the most likely remaining one and call it hard evidence. If you don't believe edelbrock who sells millions of flat tappet cams and lifters then how can we possibly convince you?

Does this discussion apply to both the older Fords and Chevys? I have one of each.

M3Fan wrote: TRBenj wrote: Joel, I wouldnt say you got creamed in that other thread. You asked a question, and we gave you an answer. I used the term just for the insiders that know about the thread, to give them a little chuckle- I wouldn't say Boat Dr's reply was a basic, civil answer... Anyway, it's VR-1 for me from now on- very easy decision. Same auto parts store, different color bottle.

Not to sound like I haven't been paying attention, but don;t you have a modern boat with a roller cam? Why would you switch?

2_Nautiques wrote: Does this discussion apply to both the older Fords and Chevys? I have one of each.

Yes, I believe it does. I dont think the 454 went roller until sometime in the 90's. No idea when the SBC went roller. Any engine with a flat tappet cam needs the oil with the zinc.

Like Joel said, ALL the Fords are flat tappets, including the GT40 MPEFI.

you guys jump on the band wagon 2 quick, yes i know zinc is important in oils but, we see a cam failure and you guys are 100% fixed on this fixation of zinc in the oils and automatically assume because the lack of zinc in the oil thats why my cam failed, i would make a bet with anyone on this site that they wouldnt put every dollar they had on this failure and say my cam failed because the lack of zinc in the oil, you cant and i cant because you and me do not know 100% what made that cam fail its easy to SPECULATE as to what made it fail. there is not enough information here to say why it failed. it truly may have failed because of this but you cant say that because i highly doubt anyone on this site has the equipment to determine what failed it.
this is being said from doing this stuff for many years (24) also included is 2600 hours of diesel engine school and and about 10 tranny schools and hundreds of rebuilt engines and thousands of tranny's, I added that cause i think there was some doubt, and i was attacking this from a different angle to open eyes and not to assume the cam failed from lack of zinc even though it may have, but we dont know that

remember, there also was wmd's in Iraq too, sometimes people are told what they want to hear. I also noticed you wouldnt bet me all the money either lol   eric

Eric, you should stick to building trannys !!!
You have not offered any positive to this post only negative.You do not own a CC nor any engine that has a flat tappett valve train.
A for the cause and effect of this rash of lifter/cam failures, can you tell me for sure and without speculation that is was NOT caused by the removal of the ZDDP.If you are not capable of this with all your schooling, please let the owners of these motors make their own choices.The introduction of the ZDDP will not harm, and could possibly save a major engine repair. Do you agree ??? No help needed from the cheering section..........
Also there is some good info available at some of the sites Tim has posted, although you are educated to the max now, I would recomend the read just for giggles...

Visited with my friend who builds drag racers. He was well aware of the valve problems. He said he would use Shell 40T, Valvoline Racing or Redline.. All of the above have been already suggested.

I have an account with Ashland; therefore, I am going to contact them and ask them about a Valvoline Racing oil for our engines.

They sure have been a great help with my 2-Cycle Detroit. Their oil has worked the best of any oil I have ever used. The shop which rebuilt my engine now uses their oil because of my positive results.

Hope same is true for older Fords!

It,s already getting to be a long winter. When will Spring arrive??

Thanx for the heads up

Steve, boy am I slow, just put together a face with the name.
Enjoyed you at GL and hopem to see you again next year........Boat dr

eric lavine wrote: i sure am not going to gaze at a blurry picture and say it failed because of no zinc in the oil

Which is why these guys are using the oil with the zinc...eliminating the variables.

(been running the VR1 20-50 all year)