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The Tique and the Acme 540.

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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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    Posted: August-10-2007 at 1:24pm
Well, the OJ 12 x 14 is back on the boat! The 540 with the exception of a slightly better hole shot showed no improvements. Still about 4300rpm WOT and about 47mph. The reason I put the old prop back on was hull vibration / harmonics. Real bad doesn't even begin to describe it! All speeds and all rpm's. With the 540 (13" dia.) I only ended up with about 1/2 " hull clearance and I suspect this was the problem. I do know what others have reported on it braking - With all that blade surface, it does act like a speed brake!

Also want to mention and warn anyone with stainless prop shaft nuts. It must have been a "bean counter" who could save 5 cents on a self locking stainless nut over the good old brass castle nut. Stainless and stainless together have a tendency to gall and lock up. Yup, I got the nut (stainless)off about 3/8" and it locked up. Had to pull the boat off the lake and on to the trailer to work on it. What should of been a 15 min. job turned into a all afternooner. I tried getting some anti seize worked into the threads but no such luck. Ended up having to cut the nut off to save the shaft and then run all over the northwoods of Wis. to find a 3/4-10 die to clean it up! There is a good old brass castle nut and cotter pin back on it!!


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77 Tique

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reidp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 1:53am
Pete, while I'm not glad to hear your 540 results, it did mirror my experience exactly but I had even less clearance. Not sure if you've tried one, but my 302 Mustang runs the very best with the 12x13 OJ as opposed to the OJ 12x14. Just a tad more speed on my boat but more crisp throttle response and still w/i the rpm range and that's with a modified engine.   The 12x13 OJ is more apples to apples to the original 12x14 Fed because of the extreme positive rake. BoatDr is getting the best numbers from his strong 331 c.i. with the 12x14 OJ but he's got the torque to turn it. If you have any interest in trying a new 12x13, I've got one still in the box that's going on a boat before long, but you can surely try it if you like in the meantime, unless you're completely satisfied with the 12x14. Just let me know.       
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Luchog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luchog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 11:31am
Does my 80 SN have enough clearance for a 540 or 542?
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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 11:42am
your right about the stainless together Pete, even steel with steel, i always coat with nickel never sieze
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 11:57am
Luchog,
Those props are a direct replacement on the SN's size wise, so yes it'll fit with ample clearance. The Tiques, Mustangs and other 16 footers came originally with 12" diameter props.

Ditto Pete and Eric with the stainless on stainless, as we find this often being an issue with hardware in our business but only with the large 3/4" stuff. So someone please explain to me why this occurs, as I just don't understand.   
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 1:41pm
Reid, My metals knoledge lacks as far as knowing exactly why stainless will gal and lock up on itself. I did engineer in the stainless food processing equipment business for some time so I do know that even with the premium nickle anti seez it still can be a problem. Stick with the brass nuts on the prop shaft and if you are using stainless fasteners always use the anti seez.

Thanks for the prop offer but I will keep the 12 x 14 on it for now as with the kids driving, I don't want the higher WOT rpm even if it is only a couple hundred more and within max spec. They have already been not too carefull with the Tique!! I guess I'm going to have to wait for the day that they start finding out how expensive it can be to purchase and maintain boats!


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77 Tique

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79Tique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79Tique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2007 at 2:10pm
Pete,

Sorry to here about the vibration with the Acme. I'm running the 542 on my Tique and it's much smoother than the stock Federal. I did loose a little top end speed but the hole shot while pulling up skiers is worth it.

Are you sure you had a good seat with the prop to shaft? When I first put mine on I had a little vibration, I took it off and put it back on and it was smooth as glass.

Work to live, not live to work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 Mustang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2007 at 2:10am
Pete,

Today was my first run with the OJ 12 x 13 I bought when I was afraid to run the 540 due to clearance issues on the 78 Ski Tique. For the price of a prop, I feel like I have a new boat! She is quicker out of the hole, planes more quickly and stops in less distance.

0 to 40 mph was about 8 seconds. I say about because I used the "one-one thousand" method of marking time. The speed was measured by gps. Seems quick to me - anyone have any stats I can compare to?

Thanks,
Mike
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boat dr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boat dr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2007 at 1:18pm
Pete, ran into this several years ago...
All outboards bolt thru the transom with 1/2 SS bolts,when you add a jackplate, they don't send bolts with the unit.
Here starts the saga;
Bolt guy comesa by to restock the bolt bin.
Bolt guy adds new SS nuts to the bin
Next jackplate install = welded nut& bolt
Try it one more time , same result
Call McMaster Carr, ask dumb question
Was told remove nuts from bolt bin
New nuts arrive , problem solved

Moral of the story,disimular metals,one was 316 the other 314
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2007 at 4:09pm
Pete, sorry to hear that I may have pointed you in the wrong direction. Ive heard many people run the 540/542 on that hull, and this is the first time Ive heard there being a problem with clearance.

Id call Bill Weeks and see if he can trim it down for you. He specifically recommended the 540 to me for that hull, so it might be news to him that it may not work well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-13-2007 at 7:12pm
Tim, No problem as I don't feel you steered me wrong. With props I have know for many years that there is lots of trial and error. The 13" even with the aft rake gain, was way below the 10% of dia. for the hull clearance.(ended up with about 5/8") Also keep in mind that my Tique doesn't have any foam under the floor so it was really buzzing!!. I'm not going to have it trimmed just yet because I want to try it on my Dunphy X55. That has the factory 312 Interceptor and a Michigan 12 x 15. That will be next summer as the X55 is now hanging in the garage being stripped to bare wood. I haven't had it down that far since I bought it 28 years ago. Always just a coat or two of varnish and bottom paint every 3 o 4 years.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2007 at 2:01am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Id call Bill Weeks and see if he can trim it down for you. He specifically recommended the 540 to me for that hull, so it might be news to him that it may not work well.


Tim/Pete, I went thru this issue some time back and discussed it here also, as Mr Weeks did cut down a 540 for me. I'm not about to take Acme or Bill to task for it as it's water under the bridge and I should have known better, as you're not going to cut down the dia of a prop w/o raising the rpm's unless you add pitch to compensate. So it's not a viable alternative from my personal experience. My stock 540 was too large for a 12" replacement in my particular case with a prop held close to the strut which resulted in the prop being +/- 1/4" from hull. Bill convinced me trimming the dia wouldn't raise the r's to speak of, but it did, approx 200rpm and slowed the boat even more, but fortunately it worked really well for Marshall's small 273 V8. A year later Marshall has a larger 340 V8 and now Paul Waters has the that unique 12"D 540 for his Classic. IMO Acme needs to make a 12x13.5 or thereabouts to directly replace a 12x14 Fed, since there are quite a few out there, and not recommend a cut down 13x12.5, (i.e. 12x12.5). There are a number of boats out there like Marshall's previous combo and possibly Paul's that can use this "cut-down" size, but those are boats that would typically best turn a 12x13 Fed and not a 12x14 or 12x15. Make any sense?

Note: Boatdr; Forget about MY blue boat, as Marshall's resurrected (thanks for your help) and stout 340 Mopar is now turning a 12x14 OJ (just like yours) 5100rpm. You'd better hope IT doesn't make it back to GL. But you'll still own him outta da hole.       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2007 at 7:27am
Reid, I do agree that Acme needs to make some 12" dia. props for all the older boats out there. It is a cad/cam product so it can't be that hard. The program may even be vectored making it even easier. Cutting down the dia. seems to be counter productive to me too. It would be the very last thing I would do!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2007 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by reidp reidp wrote:

you're not going to cut down the dia of a prop w/o raising the rpm's unless you add pitch to compensate. So it's not a viable alternative from my personal experience.

Thats true- but Pete has a stock 302 and is only turning the 540 4300RPM, so adding 200RPM would be a good thing. Cutting it down by 1/2" would be plenty, as he has 5/8" clearance on the 16'5" hull vs. the 1/4" on the 16'1" hull.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reidp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-14-2007 at 12:32pm
Young guys have such good eyes and some even pay attention to the details. Excellent deduction Tim and I agree completely! I don't know how I just wrote what I did and didn't suggest that myself. I forgot about the 4300 he was turning. Mine turned the original about 5100 rpm and the cut-down about 5300.    
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