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Water in cylinder-will not crank

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    Posted: August-29-2020 at 4:59pm
Hello guys, would appreciate feedback on my boat repair issues below.

Recently took my 351, 1986 Martinique to a new mechanic (after having trouble finding anyone who would take boat in for repair). Have had starting/stalling issues past couple seasons. I Installed a new quick fuel carb a couple years ago and boat very well 4 remainder of season and the next. Also shortly after card upgrade, I replaced the original points system (and coil w recommended one) with a pointless Electronic Module. These modifications worked fine and the boat ran well for a season or more with them. However, have had starting/stalling issues again the past two seasons.

Back to current mechanic evaluation ... mechanic pulled a plug or two (not sure how many) and found water on one or more plugs,. He gave me a call saying that he suspected a cracked head. I don't think he's trying to gouge me, as he gave me the news with statement that cost to repair (with any other potential motor issues) could approach the value of the boat. However, I'm not sure a crackhead allows water in the cylinders. Been reading post here that crack, rusted, or leaking manifolds or water jackets are potential sources of water in cylinders. I'm in Central Alabama and not experienced super cold winners in recent years. Additionally, I always do a very thorough drain and filling of the block with antifreeze , so I'm doubtful that this is a freeze damage related issue.

During another previous stalling and crank fail., a timing adjustment got the boat running again. I had assumed the same this time, or some other distributor or fuel related issue. This most recent time the boat stalled and failed to crank, it ran fine for 30 to 45 minutes running down lake, but then sputtered and stalled. after stalling it would turn over for a while, (with no start) but eventually stopped turning over and seemed to lock up. Does this sound like hydrolock from water and cylinders?

Side questions: do older Motors/ distributors commonly develop timing slip issues as they age? Also, How likely is it that the original fuel pump, ie 30 + years old, had failed?

Appreciate any thoughts or feedback on the above . Also any suggestions as to how to proceed. I am not sure the mechanic I'm working with it's on the right track.

Thanks in advance, Jeff Lunceford
Birmingham, Alabama
Jeff in Hoover (Birmingham), AL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2020 at 10:34pm
Old motors can have a stretched timing chain, but that is pretty rare.

Your water issue is more likely to be from exhaust manifold.

I would have that leak-tested before replacing head.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 12:00am
Thank you for the feedback. The motor gas about 800 hrs on it if it offers any indication of possible timing chain stretch.

Regarding manifolds, how is a leak test done?

Also, if leak test doesn't show water loss, could a cracked head allow water to enter top of cylinders?

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 7:38am
Originally posted by jblunceford jblunceford wrote:



Regarding manifolds, how is a leak test done?

Jeff

Jeff,
For the best test, the manifold is removed and the riser is removed from the manifold. Then a block off plate is bolted to the manifold where the riser was. Water is added to the cooling cavity and then regulated air pressure on the water.

Before you go to all that work, remover the risers from the manifolds and take a close look at the gasket surface between the two. It is a pretty common spot for water leakage. If bad, both surfaces can be cleaned up by flat filing and then a new gasket for the reassembly. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 7:46am
Originally posted by jblunceford jblunceford wrote:

Thank you for the feedback. The motor gas about 800 hrs on it if it offers any indication of possible timing chain stretch.

Regarding manifolds, how is a leak test done?

Also, if leak test doesn't show water loss, could a cracked head allow water to enter top of cylinders?

Jeff

It would be good to know how many cylinders he found water in, what the cylinder numbers were and how much water.

As an example you might say there was water in #2 and 3 and it came gushing out when the engine was turned over with no plugs in it or maybe #4 and 8 had tiny droplets on the spark plug electrodes

If it was hydrolocked, you shouldn't have any trouble finding some water and quite a bit of it.

Plenty of places that a head can crack and allow water into a cylinder since the combustion chambers are pretty well surrounded by the water jacket. The cracks can be above a valve and be very hard to find unless the head is totally disassembled

It doesn't have to be a crack from freezing, but it can be due to high load, an overheat etc.

It could also be that you have something easier like a head gasket issue.

Not knowing what the mechanic has done, you may have to get it running on a hose to figure things out.

Go back to the first sentence and find out that info as a start to figuring this out Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 8:36am
Compression test as well, before its taken too far apart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 10:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Anyone curious besides me on what happened on this thread? http://https://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49061&KW=&PID=588505&title=looking-4-mechanic-in-alabama#588505

I'm curious why your link "don't work"

Here's a link that works Wink


I might be mildly curious
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 5:06pm
Thanks for the additional feedback. I'm currently working with (former) Smith's Marina, now called Pier 41 or something like that, on Lake Tuscaloosa.

I'll pass this information along to them to see if they can evaluate some of these possibilities before removing the head.

It does turn out to be the head, are used heads or engines of this era hard to find? I guess location would be key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:05pm
Take no offence but just pointing out your "Bizarro World". You didn't take anyone's recommendations on who to take it to for repair so you took it to an outboard/pontoon dealership,and now you want to know where to get parts.

Here is their tag line on their web site, no mention about fixing anything.......   

Pier 43 on Lake Tuscaloosa is a family owned boat dealership in Northport Alabama. With more than 28 years of boat sales  
experience (my italics added) you can count on us to help you find the boat of your dreams.We have an extensive inventory of boats at our showrooms.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:27pm
Didn't mean to offend anyone or appear to ignore advice. I did check with Tim White at inboard Solutions in the Montgomery, Alabama area. He is known as the best mechanic on these older boats in Central Alabama and has worked on my boat before. Tim is booked up for the foreseeable future so I took it to this local marina. It just changed hands to new owners and changed names in recent weeks. I knew the prior Smiths marine owners for many years and they had a repair shop for decades. They retained the repair shop. Smiths marine actually did some work several years ago on my prior '83 CC Southwind ( not sure why the new ownership doesn't advertise their repair shop).
I am still looking for a more knowledgeable repair shop in Central Alabama. Most shops in my area won't take a boat this age. I just reached out to Scott in Ga for another shop rec (believe I did several weeks ago and he also recommended Tim Whit in Montgomery). If the current (former Smith's Marina) mechanic can't leak test the manifolds, I'm going to winterize the boat until Tim can take it or I can find another older Correct Craft experienced mechanic.

I very much appreciate all the feedback you all have offered.

Best, Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:29pm
Didn't mean to offend anyone or appear to ignore advice. I did check with Tim White at inboard Solutions in the Montgomery, Alabama area. He is known as the best mechanic on these older boats in Central Alabama and has worked on my boat before. Tim is booked up for the foreseeable future so I took it to this local marina. It just changed hands to new owners and changed names in recent weeks. I knew the prior Smiths marine owners for many years and they had a repair shop for decades. They retained the repair shop. Smiths marine actually did some work several years ago on my prior '83 CC Southwind ( not sure why the new ownership doesn't advertise their repair shop).
I am still looking for a more knowledgeable repair shop in Central Alabama. Most shops in my area won't take a boat this age. I just reached out to Scott in Ga for another shop rec (believe I did several weeks ago and he also recommended Tim Whit in Montgomery). If the current (former Smith's Marina) mechanic can't leak test the manifolds, I'm going to winterize the boat until Tim can take it or I can find another older Correct Craft experienced mechanic.

I very much appreciate all the feedback you all have offered.

Best, Jeff
Jeff in Hoover (Birmingham), AL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 6:32pm
By the way, no offense taken.
Appreciate all thoughts & feedback.

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 8:53pm
Just be careful you don't want to be paying someone to learn how to work on your boat,you could be doing the learning for free. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblunceford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-30-2020 at 11:30pm
Yes, good advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-31-2020 at 7:07am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

Take no offence but just pointing out your "Bizarro World". You didn't take anyone's recommendations on who to take it to for repair so you took it to an outboard/pontoon dealership,and now you want to know where to get parts.

Here is their tag line on their web site, no mention about fixing anything.......   

Pier 43 on Lake Tuscaloosa is a family owned boat dealership in Northport Alabama. With more than 28 years of boat sales  
experience (my italics added) you can count on us to help you find the boat of your dreams.We have an extensive inventory of boats at our showrooms 

My same thought. 


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