New Carburetor |
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Eric Harrell
Newbie Joined: September-09-2016 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: April-15-2018 at 9:57pm |
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Hi all.. I am going to buy a new holley carb for my 78 SN. 351 Windsor..
I am looking at a conversion holley made at National Carburetor. The new conversion(shown in the pictures) are built from a new Holley 0-80457-SA, and has been completely converted to a 0-80319 Marine unit using all new Holley Marine components to make this unit US Coast Guard compliant. By doing this conversion we can offer this new light weight aluminum unit for hundreds of dollars less. Has anyone purchased one of these? Thanks Eric |
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Easyyelp
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Several of us are running QFT Quick Fuel Technology carbs. They have been bought out by Holley. Very nice carbs. Use the marine versions
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Never mind
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2852 |
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+1 for QuickFuel. Go with their M-600. It is a Holley 4160 with several upgrades:
- External float adjustment hardware - Fuel bowl sight window - Replaceable jets in secondary metering block - Replaceable air bleeds If you like a double-pumper, you can go with the M-650. It's more ca$h but a very nice carb. If I had to do it all over again, I would opt for the M-650 (even though I don't really need the extra CFM capacity). JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10663 |
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I guess nobody wants to answer the question you asked
They just want to recommend a QFT M-600 instead. Looking at the prices, you'll be paying 450 plus shipping for the converted carb from National or you can easily find the QFT for 495 with free shipping.. Myself, I don't have any experience with the conversion carb and for the little bit extra for the QFT, this should be almost a no brainer to go with the QFT. They've been around a while and have a good track record. Of course somebody will probably ask why you can't rebuild yours, get it rebuilt or buy a rebuilt Holley if you want to save some money, but based on previous posts it looks like you have a 450 Holley and want to put a 600 on it. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Eric, Are you doing other engine modifications? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21113 |
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A 450 would not be appropriate for a 351w, the 600cfm would have been original equipment.
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Eric Harrell
Newbie Joined: September-09-2016 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I pulled my boat out last summer when i found out I had wrong carb..this is realy the only issue I have fought other then general stuff..
So what is a QFT....and where do I buy one??.. Just want to make sure it works for this boat Thanks for the help Eric |
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Easyyelp
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10663 |
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Quick Fuel Technologies,, You can find them at Summit, Jeg's etc and the price seems to be 495 bucks with free shipping. Look at the Quick Fuel web page for info too. Here's a link to the 600 link You'll need a new fuel line with the QFT carb due to the bowl design. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10663 |
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Here's a link to a thread with fuel line info and as it mentions in the thread the flame arrestor may or may not clear the external float adjusting screws depending on you flame arrestor.
link |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6148 |
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Good info Ken, a simple spacer below the arrestor would clear the float adjustment if you run into that issue. Other than that and the fuel line every one I have installed (besides one that was warrantied) will almost run just right out of the box with no tuning even down to idle RPM. Bolt it on as it comes out of the box and see if it will run then tune one part at a time from there. In my experience you can't get the front float level to the middle of the site glass (probably due to engine angle). The throttle response is fantastic and the cold or hot starts are nearly like EFI when tuned correctly. You won't regret spending the cash on one of these. |
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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THese engines all came with the same holley 600. Did holley pre set these for the angle of the engine or did someone at PCM do it?
I replaced my carburetor a couple of years ago with new holley (not needed by the way) and I did nothing to it out of the box. I do however suspect it is dripping since my rear cylinders are wet. I have no idea how to set it for the angle of the carburetor. Seems it should have a leveling shim. What have you others done? |
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Butter77
Newbie Joined: July-30-2011 Location: K-Ville, NC Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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I'll agree with the Quickfuel. I did a rebuild on my old Holley after having an issue running way too rich. Needless to say the rebuild didn't do a damn thing to help and I've struggled since then. Finally got tired of beating my head against the wall and slapped on a M600. When folks say it works straight out of the box they ain't kiddin! I've got a Holley doorstopper if anyone needs one.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2852 |
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Yes, I've heard of National Carburetors. They're out of Jacksonville, FL. $200 to rebuild your old carb or $320 to buy one of theirs that has been rebuilt. You need to weigh those "rebuilt" costs against a new Holley 4160 ($595) or a new QuickFuel M-600 ($495). For my hard earned dollar$ I'd go with new vs. rebuilt. The carb is the lungs of your engine and the distributor is the heart. If either of those are less than optimal, your engine will not perform up to its potential. Scrimping on a carb is not a good gamble in my book. JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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U used National years ago. Rochesters. One the did perfect, the other they did not. Had to return a couple of times then wound up fixing some of the external errors myself.
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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Holley tech guy said I should use a wedge spacer. they have 7 and 12 degree, any of you use one?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10663 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Holman Moody used a wedge,when I changed to a 4bbl I got another. Carb sits level. Moved carb to a PCM motor, they don't use them,they use a straight spacer and had to readjust so it would run clean.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Most cars are set up with 5* of angle on intake manifold Most boats are set up with 15* of angle. Do the math. 10* angled spacer would be about right |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I'll be reassembling my Holley this week and remembered this thread while I was staring at my intake on Saturday. Is there a consensus on how important / beneficial angled spacers are for the PCM application? |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Sounds like it didn't have a angled spacer originally. How has it performed without one?
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Boats are set up using automotive intake manifolds which are milled at 5* as previously stated. Auto engines are set in at about 5* and then the intake angle of -5* puts the carb back level. Boats as stated are set in at 15*. That puts a lot of angle on the carb base as you have seen on yours. As others have said "personal preference" I prefer mine level. Floats are then set up properly;. Your choice
edit added pic . |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Duane, OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway? Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level. |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I haven't had it running yet but hopefully in the next ~10 days I'll be ready to give her a try. If that's how CC built them then I'll not second guess. I'm just trusting the 'all original' vibe I got at first now that I'm seeing bad splices and duct tape and goofy workarounds for soft wood. Sorry if I am being somewhat redundant. I am gradually seeing how much nautical specific knowledge I'm lacking as I tinker around with mine. Maybe I'll ask what kind of oil is best next |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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[QUOTED] OK, I'm struggling with the math! How many degrees do you add for the pitch of the boat when it's underway? Many of our hulls including yours run bow high. That no longer puts the carb level. [/QUOTE]
Bow position depends whether I'm in forward or reverse. Just leave it stock and you'll be fine If it gives you trouble later then shim it Get it back in the water and have fun |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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The issue you will run into is PCM uses their standard spacer as the PCV vacuum source, as far as I know there are no aftermarket angled spacers that have that port. I was able to make my own using a phenolic wedge,drilling a hole in the back to glue in a tube to connect the hose,then routing grooves in the base to the primary side to supply the vacuum copying the Holman Moody aluminum 2 bbl style. |
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WinterTurtle
Groupie Joined: July-18-2017 Location: Summerfield, NC Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Duane- Your studs look quite plumb to the carb mounting surface of the wedge. Did you rebore the the stud holes while you had the manifold in the shop? I am wondering if there are any easy ways to correct stud angle. |
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1979 Southwind 18 351w
Not Running - All Potential! |
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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Guessing the biggest issue with changing carburetor angle and spacer size is going to be the hard fuel line. What did others do regarding this issue?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 10663 |
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Some people have rebent the original line enough to fit.
Some have used USCG approved A1-15 rubber fuel line. Sierra sells a couple one is part number 18-8115 it's 25 inches long another is 18-8114 and it's 31 inches long. Or you can make your own out of the same A1-15 hose or bend up some 3/8 tubing. Here's a good link with links to the coast guard regs and the ABYC talking about fuel systems. link You might notice that Pete did some learnin' about USCG regs in the linked thread |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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FWIW. I run a length of "fire sleeve" over my gas line from the pump to the carb. Not only gives some fire protection but also insulates the line and helps guard against vapor lock. ALL of my fuel lines on my Experimental aircraft have fire sleeves on them.
Cheap insurance. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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