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Strut Alignment Procedure

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    Posted: April-03-2018 at 12:42pm
Going to try and dry fit my strut which was bent and just finished being repaired. I have the prop off and the coupling separated from the trans. I didn't have an indicator last week and wanted to get the strut into the shop ASAP, Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose. I have a dial indicator now. The strut base is recessed in the hull.

Once I get the strut dry fit so that the shaft is happy and centered in the log and spinning freely, can I get my runout measurement by just spinning the shaft on V blocks? Or is there a need to reconnect to trans for rigidity for this precise of a measurement? I would think the V blocks would be better than connecting it to a misaligned eng/trans. I would like to determine asap if the shaft is junk.

What is the target total incated runout aft of strut, what is pretty bad, and what is completely unacceptable. This measurement is taken on the taper correct? Is a measurement between strut and log valuable?

How close should I have the couplings halves to each other while doing the strut alignment?

Will the seal and cure of the 5200 be ruined permanently if temps dip below freezing periodically in the 7 days it is supposed to cure?

My woman is on vacation, hence the availability of time to do this, but I will be doing it alone so any other side tips and tricks would be appreciated. Also any tips on how to loosen a very tight log hose that was installed new last year by PO with new packing... I heated it up with a hair dryer for 20 min and wasn't able to get it to come off without beginning to damage it and I don't want to have to pull the coupler to replace the hose if my shaft ends up being good.

Thanks in advance for any input.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 1:21pm
003 to 006 is the tolerance.
you are looking for side to side im assuming.    Get it as close to parallel with keel as possible then after installed and 5200 is cured you can finish aligning the engine.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose.

Thanks in advance for any input.



Those are scary words right there

Sounds like your shaft was bent, bowed or whatever and you think that 1 inch hunk of stainless steel is going to magically straighten itself out.

If you want to do it right, you should be pulling the shaft out of the boat, checking for straightness and proceeding from there following something like Pete's alignment video
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:



My woman is on vacation, hence the availability of time to do this,


Time? You currently should be getting buried in snow!!! We're currently getting hit on top of the 10" we got Saturday but today I understand most of the snow is south of 29. I think you have some time before the boat will see water!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Shaft appeared to straighten right out once I got the strut loose.

Thanks in advance for any input.





Sounds like your shaft was bent, bowed or whatever and you think that 1 inch hunk of stainless steel is going to magically straighten itself out.



My statement about the shaft straightening right out may have been misleading about what I think. What I think is that there is a possibility that the deformation seen by the shaft was elastic and that it did not yield. The visible deviation in the shaft was between the strut and the transmission which is a significant length relative to the diameter of the shaft. Furthermore that the possibility that that is true would justify dry fitting the strut and measuring the run out of the shaft before re-evaluating. Especially given that If I pressed out the shaft I would be adding mandatory machining time/money to face the coupler. I could be delusional but it appears to me it is worth the potential massive time savings to check this way.

For the record I have watched Pete's video several times.

Pete, thanks to the handful of mills dumping millions of gallons per day of warm effluent, the Fox north of Winnebago has been open since February. You can't eat the walleye but it floats the boat just the same and I was able to get out several times in March. Also I am a Yooper with a dry suit and built a 60 psi hot shower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:28pm
Well with all them fancy engineering terms you must know what you're doing

Try it your way, nothing to lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:40pm
I would just line up the strut & engine within spec, lock it all down, then take a test ride & see if it vibrates. It won't be much more work to take the shaft out if you need to replace it.

I found it hard to get exact runout measurement because dial indicator base not being solid mounted.

I would use 3M4200, it cures much faster & should be strong enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:46pm
I’m sorry if that came across as rude or arrogant, I didn’t mean it to be . You small group of guys that post on this forum are by far the best resource on the web for advice on working on these boats and my experience is minimal in comparison. I am here because I need help sometimes. I am very new to forum culture and will try and practice better etiquette.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 6:51pm
I think it was a compliment!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:13pm
Sorry for my haste. I watched Pete’s 101 again with full attention and noticed he covered some of the questions I asked earlier. I will update on how it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:16pm
Cole,
IF you can rigidly V block the shaft while it's still in the boat, not connected to the trans and rigidly mount the dial indicator to get some decent readings, then you may be able to check the shaft. The figure I always use is .003 TIR at any spot on the shaft. The area of most concern is on the taper aft of the strut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

I think it was a compliment!


What he said, ^^^

I see from your profile you're a young engineer who can spell too, unlike Pete who's old and can't spell mechanical right in his profile

And don't worry about etiquette around here

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-03-2018 at 7:48pm
Fix that profile Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 12:38pm
The shop that straightened the strut did a mediocre job, not terrible but I think i can live with it. With the strut dry fit and shaft centered in the log and the cutlass bearing dry I am able to spin the shaft with my hand on the shaft with about the strength it would take to open a jar of salsa. Is this indicative that strut alignment will be manageable going forward?

I ran out of propane in the garage and quickly lost dexterity and motivation so i didn't get to measure the runout of the shaft last night. Getting the shaft to stay centered on the homemade V blocks was challenging. Can i use a runout measurement taken with it bolted to the trans? If so i will do it and I can admit to having a bent shaft and then cut the devil out and join the A.R.E. cult... unless Pete will give me permission to use a harbor freight steering wheel puller to get the shaft out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 1:43pm
You're this far, I'd hook it up even though alignment won't be right and check the shaft.
It might be kinda tough.

Or.........take the coupling off and check the shaft on the workbench.

If you get to "cutting the devil out" a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with a 1/16 inch thick cutting wheel behind the coupling takes about 60 seconds taking your time. It's easier than a sawzall

Don't wait for Pete, it's his birthday today and he's still trying to blow all those candles out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

The shop that straightened the strut did a mediocre job,

Cole,
Understand that struts are not a precise machined piece of bronze! Fine tuning is done on the hull.
Ken,
Thinking you need to know, leaf blowers work great.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:


Ken,
Thinking you need to know, leaf blowers work great.


I'll be chuckling about that for a week or so Pete, good one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 6:18pm
Cole - When you bolt shaft up to the tranny, check the parallelism (feeler check). If you see that it changes with rotation of shaft, that is another sign of warped shaft.

Good luck on you project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-04-2018 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by SNobsessed SNobsessed wrote:

Cole - When you bolt shaft up to the tranny, check the parallelism (feeler check). If you see that it changes with rotation of shaft, that is another sign of warped shaft.

Good luck on you project.

Plus 1.
Yes, if the shaft is bent forward of the strut. a uneven gap between the coupling faces will follow the rotation of the shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 1:15pm
Coupling faces measured parallel within a thousandth of an inch. More like 5 tenths. It sounded too good to be true so I unbolted them and offset it by 90 degrees from the original and measured again and it was the same result. .0001 fit everywhere with a little resistance and .00015 did not fit anywhere.

I was able to get a pretty good runout measurement on the shaft halfway between the strut and coupler. Magnetic base indicator on trailer and 4 ratchet straps to keep the boat tight to the trailer...not a machinist dream but was able to get repeatable results.

14 thousandths total indicated runout.   Measuring on the taper was harder but with the help of a friend I was able to get a reading I felt was reasonable, between 14 and 16 thousandths.

I am frustrated because I know you guys will tell me that it is too much but I have a feeling that if I put the prop on and took it for a rip it might not be that bad. That being said I have sunk a good amount of time and money into this boat since I bought it in feb and this is the last thing that needs to be addressed.   I don't want to sink more money and time but I also realize It would be like stopping at mile 25 of a marathon. I have taken photos of most of the stuff I did and I will share them when I/boat is good and ready.

Do you guys think that bend is going to be immediately noticeable under power? I know I will need to replace the shaft but I would rather wait and do it next month and I don't think it would really be a lot more work to do it later if I go with the ARE but it will allow me to use the boat once this weather rolls out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 1:47pm
I'll surprise you and be the outlier here and say, you're this far "run it" see what it's like and decide for yourself from there

The mirror and the gunwales will tell you a lot about vibration

How does the prop turn by hand right now if you wet the cutlass bearing a little before turning it?

Did you catch that Pete? I used a nautical term I have to go see what a gunwale is now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 2:11pm
Haven’t put the prop on yet but when I wet the bearing I could turn the shaft with my bare hand on the shaft but it required most of my strength . After it dried/froze I had to use a wrench on the coupling with minimal force. I would guess with prop on I could spin it with ease. Keep in mind the transmission and fluid is below 30 degrees so there is probably a good amount of resistance from that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:


It sounded too good to be true so I unbolted them

.


I am probably mis-reading your post, but just to be clear the gap between couplers is measured with couplers fully unbolted. I use one hand to hold them tight & measure with the other.

I would take it for a ride, it won't hurt anything, but may vibrate.

.014 is 4X tolerance so don't get hopes up too high.

It is possible to have shaft straightened, but most guys opt to modernize with dual taper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Coupling faces measured parallel within a thousandth of an inch. More like 5 tenths.
measured again and it was the same result. .0001 fit everywhere with a little resistance and .00015 did not fit anywhere.


Curious to find out how you measured these dimensions. I worked in Tool and Die trade for many years building aircraft engine inspection gages requiring that type of tolerances. Definitely controlled atmosphere type work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 5:33pm
Multiple big whoops took place. Throw out and disregard everything I said about the coupling faces. Couplers were bolted together and I missed a zero on the feelers. Duane I thought the same thing and that was why I didn’t like the measurement and did it multiple times. Sometimes the brain gets a little funny after 5 pm. I think my path forward is clear. I will just order the ARE now and go hungry now and thank you guys later. I got a quote from Elbert but should I just go through skidim to get the discount?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by wiscofoot wiscofoot wrote:

Couplers were bolted together

I'm trying to understand how you used the feeler gauges when the couplings were bolted together? The .003" max between the faces is the DIFFERANCE top to bottom port to starboard. As others have mentioned, try the boat out but understand with a .014", that's a lot.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:09pm
In the interest of keeping you alive to use the boat, why don't you keep eating and check the alignment the right way before spending your food money? It won't take long to know if it's way out of whack

By the way you can probably save some of that money with a double tapered shaft from General Propeller in Florida

It's been discussed in some older threads here on CCF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:17pm
If you google      correctcraftfan general propeller     you'll come up with some reading about ARE and General Propeller.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-05-2018 at 7:36pm
If you had a straight shaft, Duane in Indy could turn it into a double taped shaft at a good price, but I suppose if it was straight you wouldn't need a new one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiscofoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-06-2018 at 12:02am
I was being a little dramatic about going hungry    I can swing the ARE. Wish I would’ve just bought it before (as recommended on every relevant thread on this site) and been done with it by now. On the bright side I will have a nice lever to use for getting the strut pointing due north.
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