Shaft repacking |
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rbbordner
Groupie Joined: January-05-2012 Location: Chelan, WA Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Posted: June-21-2015 at 8:01pm |
About to repack my rudder shaft hoping I cut my new packing rope to a good length.
I did not pay close enough attention when I was taking it apart because I have a brass ring that I'm not sure if it goes on top of the rope or on the bottom before I put the rope in. Help please. Project is currently on hold. |
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RB
1993 Ski Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The packing is wrapped around the shaft and cut to length. Don't try to measure it. The ends are cut on a diagonal so each wrap overlaps itself. Is the brass ring a spacer that sits on top of the gland nut? Pictures please.
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rbbordner
Groupie Joined: January-05-2012 Location: Chelan, WA Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I tried to cut the rope based on the length of the old ones but I was inconsistent and have 1 that barely touches 1 that I had to squeeze to fit and 1 that was pretty good. I think it may end up being practice rope. |
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RB
1993 Ski Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Robert,
Yes, the ring goes between the last wrap of packing and the gland nut. Yup, the first rings of packing are practice! |
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rbbordner
Groupie Joined: January-05-2012 Location: Chelan, WA Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Thanks.
New rope ordered. Project back on hold. When I disassembled I found no safety wire. I imagine that is something I shouldn't go without when I get it back together. What type of wire is used for that? I got into this project with hopes of making my steering easier, is there a way to tell if my cables are still good? |
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RB
1993 Ski Nautique |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Robert,
I use MIG SS welding wire but that's because I have rolls of it. Find a small roll of SS wire at the hardware. |
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JayG80
Senior Member Joined: January-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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To see if steering cable is OK - just disconnect cable end from the rudder arm to see if the steering wheel spins easily.
If wheel is difficult to turn with the steering cable disconnected from the rudder then you know the problem isn't in the rudder box. |
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2007 Ski
2002 Ski |
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JayG80
Senior Member Joined: January-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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OK I either did mine wrong or I disagree with the previous post stating the placement of the large ring. I do not believe it goes next to the bottom ring of packing inside the nut.
I put the large ring (what I call a brass thrust washer) on top of the packing gland nut and below the rudder arm. This is how it was positioned when I took the rudder apart. I also looked at my neighbor's 2002 SN rudder and you can just see the edge of the thrust washer on top of the packing nut. I looked for pictures on the web but can't find an exploded view , please advise if I am wrong. Here is what I just did: I cleaned the old grease from rudder and rudder port. Spread new grease on the rudder shaft except for the area that touches the packing. Gore Tex packing instructions said no grease because it will hinder performance. Cut 4 pieces of 3/16" packing to match those in my 2002 Ski Nautique. some year models use 1/4" and I think mine is transition year. Wrap around rudder shaft and cut to length. Put the 4 pieces of GFO packing in the clean gland nut. Staggered the seams. Screwed packing nut two hand tight and then put a wrench on the back up nut and tightened it. Placed large thrust washer on top of packing nut. Boat is in a lift cradle so I hopped in water. Grabbed the rudder and shoved it up. My wife positioned the rudder arm and the bolts. I tightened it all up and replaced safety wire. Inspected for leaks after lowering it into the lake. Initially the wheel was very difficult to turn. Spun the wheel back and forth a dozen times to set or initiate the packing. My wife said the helm never turned this easy. I'll check for leaks and tighten after a couple of days if necessary. |
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2007 Ski
2002 Ski |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3594 |
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I did mine last year, I don't remember where I put the brass washer, sorry.
I did add a grease zerk to my rudder so I could grease in the future if needed. I used standard packing with grease. With the rudder out of the boat it was easy to cut the packing material. Yes, I had to waste some while learning how it cut best. I ended up using a razor blade and had to use a new blade with each cut to get very nice clean edges. As you wrap the packing on the shaft on install off set the ends of each wrap so none of the ends line up vertically. If they line up you are creating a potential leak path. I turned each wrap 180 degrees. I think as long as they don't line up one over the other you are good. On install of the adjustment nut I was surprised at how little force was needed. Even at hand tight the rope starts pinching the rudder. I think I went hand tight and added another 1/4 turn. I only have 25 hours on mine now but still no leak and it steers really well. No drag on the rudder. As I recall there was a trick to installing the steering arm correctly to the rudder, it had to be adjusted properly to avoid drag. Maybe another forum member can refresh us on that part. I bought my lock wire at the local ACE Hardware store. They carried both Brass and Stainless steel. I bought both but used the brass. The stainless seemed brittle. The size I don't remember. Maybe 1/32. You can look it up or take one of your parts with you to the Hardware. |
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rbbordner
Groupie Joined: January-05-2012 Location: Chelan, WA Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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All back together now but the rudder feels anything but solid. Wobbles a little left to right and has play up and down. Where did I go wrong?
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RB
1993 Ski Nautique |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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how much? Did you make note of how much was there previous? All rudders, at least in my experience of a dozen boats, have play in the rudder port in all directions, say almost 1/16"
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1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Tighten the packing gland some more. The play up and down may also indicate you didn't put enough packing in it. Typically this play is removed by a spacer or washers between the gland nut ant tiller arm. Was there one originally? |
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JayG80
Senior Member Joined: January-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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Did you check the diameter of the old packing against the new packing?
Your pictures shows 2 pieces of packing. Did you put 2 pieces of packing in the packing nut or 4 pieces? |
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2007 Ski
2002 Ski |
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rbbordner
Groupie Joined: January-05-2012 Location: Chelan, WA Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I pulled out 3 full rings and the remnants of a fourth. Comparison was that my new packing was the same size as the old. 3/16.
I put 3 rings back in. I placed my large washer on top of the packing nut below the tiller arm. I got gland nut to hand tight right now. And tighten the back up nut. I failed to check for play in the rudder prior to dropping it out. Lots of respect to everyone who does all there own maintenance. I'm ready to pass off mine to a professional. My little project is taking way too long. |
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RB
1993 Ski Nautique |
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steve a
Groupie Joined: November-08-2014 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Hello I going through the same problem I have posted my problems on other forms . I don't remember having a thrust washer on my packing nut. Maybe that's what is my problem . I only have a 16th of a inch on mine so I just might go with that. Thanks Steve
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JayG80
Senior Member Joined: January-07-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 170 |
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I have a 2002 SN with 700 hrs, my neighbor has a 1994 SN. Rough eyeball and wiggle tests show that both boats have about 1/16" vertical play in the rudder and may 1/32" side to side play of the rudder shaft inside the rudder port.
My boat steers like a dream and the rudder does not leak. Just pulled a skier at very short line lengths yesterday with no issues. Another neighbor has a 2002 ProStar 190 and it has about 1/32" vertical play and side to side slop. Maybe I'll check out another friend's SN 200 rudder for comparison as to how much the rudder wiggles on a newer boat. |
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2007 Ski
2002 Ski |
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steve a
Groupie Joined: November-08-2014 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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I believe you should be patient. I started my off season with replacing my cuttless bearing. Now I just got the rudder to do. The replacing of the cuttless bearing went pretty smooth. There is lots of info on youtube as well on this site with that project.Now with replacing the packing on the rudder. After reading your post I feel a little more confident about what I am doing I also have a post on general discussions it is more about dealing with ballist tanks. Hope I spelled that right . Your welcome to post your opinion on the subject. But don't give up because that kind of takes away from all the correct craft people out there trying to help. That is just my opinion. Now if time is the issue well you have to do what you have to do. Enough said.
Just try get some who knows about direct drive as well a correct crafts . Thanks Steve also lots of info on youtube and this site. I now with your post I feel a little more confident about what I am doing. I also have a post on this subject if I can remember on general discussions your welcome to ck it out,offer and opinion would be welcomed. |
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windsurfnut
Newbie Joined: March-20-2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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I am about to repack my rudder on a 2002 SNCB. I've replaced the steering cable, that made steering effort near perfect. However, I do have an odd steering behavior just as the rudder unloads from a right turn to neutral. I'm hoping its the packing.
However..after replacing the steering cable, I noticed the tiller arm was hitting the bottom of the boat in one direction. After monkeying around with it, turns out my thrust shim on top of the packing nut is worn on one side, making the arm decline as it turns to full lock. My question is regarding the shim, does it need to be there if not necessary for free play (can the arm be directly on the packing nut?. I'm hoping to source some at a hardware store, but in the case I cannot I'm wondering if it can be omitted. Do all boats have a thrust shim(s) there? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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The shim washer(s) are there to set the height of the rudder. The thickness or number of washers varies depending on the height of the packing gland nut on the rudder port. Take a look at where your rudders height is in relation to the hull bottom. Yes, any hardware store brass/bronze thrust washer will work. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6148 |
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Check that the steering cable clamp is properly secured to the hull. Also check that the cable tube is properly clamped by the clamp itself.
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windsurfnut
Newbie Joined: March-20-2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thanks - I did undo the clamps and reset everything. I thought maybe I had set the tube too far one direction making it hit, but upon moving it I lost significant range of motion and gained too much on the opposite end.
Tightening the packing nut showed a very small improvement. Also, adjusting the rudder trim tab helped by making the steering load less to the right and become more neutral, but now driving in the course sucks. |
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windsurfnut
Newbie Joined: March-20-2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Couple more questions.
1. If my rudder does not need the shim/washer to take up slack, is one necessary there as a wear item? 2. Boat is a 2002 Ski Nautique (196). Steering cable attaches to the underside of the rudder/tiller arm. Is this correct? I have seen other nautique pictures where the cable is attached to the top of the rudder/tiller arm. At first I thought because mine was on the underside, this is why the hardware was binding on the hull, but trying it on the top was a significant reduction in steering range. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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I would recommend a washer as a wear item. Not that you will see much wear on the tiller arm and the packing gland nut, it's just a good idea. Bronze "oilite" washers are available in 1/16" thickness that should fit. |
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windsurfnut
Newbie Joined: March-20-2018 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thank you.
For sake of getting a head start on finding the washers before heading up to the lake to measure, what is the ID and OD of the washer needed? |
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