Engine Surge at WOT |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Posted: October-05-2014 at 7:29pm |
Alrighty guys, I was able to finally get to the carb today to check things out, and this is what I found when I took the diaghram off
[/IMG] Its not that clear of a pic, but I would say that the port hole was at least 85% clogged up. It was like Holley glued in the cork o-ring and there was an excessive amount of glue that squeezed out, blocking the hole. So I took my pick and cleaned it out, sprayed it with carb cleaner and the carb itself, did the "suck test", which it passed. Here is what it looked like after I cleaned it up [/IMG] Now I just have to get her back on the water and see what happens, whenever that will be. Told the wife I just need to zip up and down the lake to check, so hopefully we'll be able to make it out sooner than later. I will be in touch with the results once I'm able to test here out. A big thanks to all you guys in guiding me in the right direction . Mark |
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levin
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4112 |
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Damn find me a girl as good as Joe and I'll marry her. I think CQ will be grabbing his tool box and heading to NY over this one |
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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^^^ ^^^ |
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Damn Joe, you really gotta be careful. HW could have a field day with this |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5693 |
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Vacuum Pump, I guess that would work, I just put the thing to my mouth and use the lungs, seriously you should be able to suck on it and pull in the rod, block it off with your tongue and it should stay in. Then if it passes as Eddie mentions you should move onto the carb body. |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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You shouldn't have to take the diaphragm housing apart. You should be able to take it off the carb body intact. Get a cheap vacuum pump at AZ or anyplace else. Put a vacuum on the vacuum port and if everything is good, you'll see the secondary rod move like it's supposed to as you pump it up. Hold the vacuum and make sure it doesn't leak. If that's all good don't mess with it. Everything is good as a unit and the problem has to be in the carb body itself. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Ok, so Ill take the secondary diaghram off and apart, Im assuming I should take some carb cleaner and blow out with compressor?
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levin
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Agree with Alan... Bet that circuit is at least partially plugged up. The blockage is more likely to be on the carb body side of that circuit as opposed to the diaphragm body... Be sure to check both sides.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5767 |
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Mark, you could be chasing a leak or a blockage. Todd W's boat had a similar issue a few years ago and he found the vacuum path to the secondary diaphram was blocked. The circled area on the diagram below.
edit, exactly what Brian above is referring to, either as leak or a blockage there could cause your issue. |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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I'd maybe start where the secondary housing meets the rest of the carb (body or metering block, I'm not sure?)
But anyway, there's that tiny cork casket in between there, that could have been left out etc. |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Well, never had this particular problem either. I usually just take things apart & considering the theory of operation, look for something that has changed.
What have you got to lose? |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Use a can of carb cleaner and with the engine running squirt a bit of cleaner at suspect areas. Increase in RPM signals a leak. Check the base gasket and all around the intake plenum as well.
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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I can do that Chris, but I could use a little guidance on this. What should the process be for tracing the vacuum path? How do I test to see if there is a leak? and how do I test the diaghram to see if there is a pin hole in it? Sorry for so many questions, but I have never really dug into any carbs before besides checking float adjustments, so I am definetly a newbie to this process. I'm more than capable of doing so, just need my hand held along the way. Thanks
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levin
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Well i took of the top of the diaghram actuator and the rubber looked ok, didnt see any visible holes. How do I go about testing the diaghram to see if thats the issue? How do I do the suction tube process and what am I looking for?
Thanks guys |
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levin
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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I bet you are right cant you also check the diaphram with a suction tube? and your mouth?
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Take the actuator diaphram off - I bet it has a hole in it.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Alrighty guys, Im at the quarry now and just did a wot run with wife driving and I have no secondaries opening! Finally found the pesky problem. Now the question is what do I do fix it. We were running 36 and nothing and punched it and they opened a little. Next run was at 36 and they were closed and then punched it to wot and they remained closed with no fuel flow. Opened them by hand and she really came alive. Hopefully this is a minor fix l, but cant wait to resolve this. Look forward to your responses
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levin
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Brian, to answer your questions.
1. When I bought the boat it was sitting in a garage for 3 years without any use. The carb was pretty fouled up and the secondaries were stuck shut/hard to move by hand. At time I didn't know to much (still don't) about these boats. So of course I took it to the nearest dealer where they tried to rebuild it but decided to replace with a new one. After replacement didn't have an issue till next season. So pretty much I have been fighting this since we've had the boat. 2. As far as arching goes, I have not noticed it but will definetly check for that again now that you mention it. 3. Now for the secondaries, I'm not sure but will find out Saturday. Plan on taking doghouse and flame arrestor off, having wife drive while I check things out. Oh yeah, you can add new fuel pump to the list also, replaced that last year. Any other things I should check, was planning on advancing timing to 32-34 degrees, replace plugs, replace fuel filter, maybe check secondary float (see if its parallel upside down), clean needle and seat again in secondary bowl? |
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levin
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Here's a summary of everything I picked up from the thread:
Replaced: -Carb 2010 -Fuel line -Anti Siphon Valve -Fuel Filter -Coil -Cap -Rotor Checked Cleaned or adjusted: -Adjusted secondary float -Cleaned needle and seat -Checked and adjusted spacing of electronic ignition pickup -Timing -Advance A couple questions left un-answered: -Secondary opening? -Carb replaced in 10’ Where from? Is it new, new, or from a bulk rebuilder? What lead to the carb replacement originally? -Arching near coil? Here's the one I'm most interested in. We all kind of assumed coil. You replaced the coil, but that ultimately didn't change performance. Did you ever check to see if that same arching was eliminated after the coil was replaced? |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Ha, not a chance! Skiing and footn only. We've had our Ski for almost 4 years now and not once hooked a tube to it and dont plan on ever doing so!
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levin
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boardersdad
Senior Member Joined: June-18-2013 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 409 |
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For that heavy load--you could pull a bunch of tubes! At dawn when the skiers want the glass!! Through the middle of the course!!! lol
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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I hear ya Peter, plan on getting out Saturday morning, will update on how things ran
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levin
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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you are way over thinking this problem. get your timing close get it in the water get it under a heavy load run it at wot and see if it leans out . it will pop fart detonate and just feel like it wants to rev higher than it does.
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6147 |
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Lack of full timing advance won't cause a surge. It will just make it doggy all around.
Inaccurate advance IE. jumping around would cause a surge as it made more and less power but that's unlikely. Just rev it through the rpm range until it doesn't advance anymore. 3500 rpms in neutral won't hurt a thing. Make sure the timing reading you see advances in a linear motion and it's not "sticky" or "jumpy". |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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Here's a weird one I'll throw in there. Luchog ran across a situation where the spring that holds the cap contact to the top of the rotor was sticking somehow. Worth exploring:
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19567&title=distributor-cap-carbon-pill-issue |
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4945 |
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The advance in this application works strictly on RPMS. So, load doesn't matter as far as the dizzy is concerned.
I'll let other's weigh in on whether or not you want to rev it over 3.5k rpms in neutral though. I wouldn't go over 3, but that's just opinion. |
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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One more question. Im doing all this work in my garage with motor having no load. Im assuming if I advance the timing more, it needs to be checked under load, like running down the lake wot or at least 3500 rpms and check timing then to see if its still in ballpark?
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levin
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levinmark
Senior Member Joined: November-11-2010 Location: illinois Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Thanks guys, Ill mess around with it and see how it goes Saturday. Ill keep you guys posted
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levin
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Don't worry on the initial, on this low of a compression motor it should be no problem and will idle much better. Get that timing at 4000 up in the 30-36 range |
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Brian
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