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Transmission "rattle" in reverse

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Transmission "rattle" in reverse
    Posted: May-12-2012 at 8:44pm
First ride today. Transmission "rattles" in reverse. Fluid level fine, nice & pink.

Ran last year (first year) with manifold crack and slipped gasket so was quite loud in/around the doghouse. Crack/gasket now repaired/replaced, engine quite quiet now in comparison. It has been suggested that trans might have been rattling same last year, just couldn't hear it over the manifold racket.

Ideas?

I've got 2 mpeg-4 videos in my email, transmission video orig 1803kb zip 1788kb, and a good WOT video 5267kb zipped 5218kb...how do i attach?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2012 at 9:02pm
How many hours are on the trans? Is the rattle more noticeable at a low idle when there isn't much load? Most likely it's just the planetary gears and their bushings getting a little loose. With no load and the extra backlash caused by some wear, they will rattle when revolving around the sun gear.

I'll bet Eric will be on at least in the morning. Let's see what he has to say.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-12-2012 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

How many hours are on the trans? Is the rattle more noticeable at a low idle when there isn't much load? Most likely it's just the planetary gears and their bushings getting a little loose. With no load and the extra backlash caused by some wear, they will rattle when revolving around the sun gear.

I'll bet Eric will be on at least in the morning. Let's see what he has to say.


No clue on transmission hours (or engine hours for that matter). Yes rattles in reverse which is always of course low idle so your theory sounds good. No-wake zone coming out-didn't notice in forward; but no-wake forward is still much faster than reverse so maybe creating enough load. The good news is it runs like a bat out of hell at speed & WOT, no slipping or hesitation, temp good, pressure good, just a few electrical gremlins to hunt down.

do you know how to attach video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote river ratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 12:34am
check your idle mine did that after my buddys dad tinkered with mine had her way to low.it went away after i checked the manual and adjusted it. you can also look on your valve cover.
dont slip on the glass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 5:32am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

   Yes rattles in reverse which is always of course low idle so your theory sounds good. No-wake zone coming out-didn't notice in forward; but no-wake forward is still much faster than reverse so maybe creating enough load.

No, it's not the speed/idle nor the load in forward that's different compared to reverse. In forward, the planetary gear set is locked so the planet gears are not rotating around the sun gear.

If you ever get a chance, take a look at an exploded view of the guts of a marine trans. It will give you a better idea on how they operate.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 6:35am
most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 6:51am
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn

OK Jeff, here's the official word from Eric. Replace the damper! (drive plate)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 7:12am
off to the yard, 21 days straight, Pete, my phone rings constantly....watch what you wish for (me that is)
"the things you own will start to own you"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 7:59am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn

OK Jeff, here's the official word from Eric. Replace the damper! (drive plate)


What does that entail?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 8:15am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn

OK Jeff, here's the official word from Eric. Replace the damper! (drive plate)


What does that entail?

Pulling the trans and bell housing.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 8:49am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn

OK Jeff, here's the official word from Eric. Replace the damper! (drive plate)


What does that entail?

Pulling the trans and bell housing.


I prefer your "bushings just getting a little worn" theory.

Pulling trans way over my head, and that of marina mechanic. As previously stated, does great job on the basics but doesn't know inboards/shaft alignments/etc. About 100 boats on site, only 5 or so inboards, and 2 of them are my "antiques".

Any credence to the theory it had been doing it last year? If did pull it might as well "rebuild" and how much would that cost?

How long might it last in this condition? If needed to rebuild it someday anyway, what is true risk in letting it run for now and see what happens?

Tim (Morfoot): we were gonna go do a little multi-testing sometime, be great if we could expedite this and get your opinion on this noise.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 9:09am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:


Pulling trans way over my head

Don't underestimate yourself. Many have done it themselves. You know how to use a wrench and a couple bottle jacks don't you? There are several great threads on it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

most likey the damper Pete, i believe this is one of the root causes for snapped reverse plates, maybe a miss in the engine also to aggravate it....torsionals are funny, many times you will see the reverse plate splines rattled open and worn

OK Jeff, here's the official word from Eric. Replace the damper! (drive plate)


What does that entail?

Pulling the trans and bell housing.


I prefer your "bushings just getting a little worn" theory.

Pulling trans way over my head, and that of marina mechanic. As previously stated, does great job on the basics but doesn't know inboards/shaft alignments/etc. About 100 boats on site, only 5 or so inboards, and 2 of them are my "antiques".

Any credence to the theory it had been doing it last year? If did pull it might as well "rebuild" and how much would that cost?

How long might it last in this condition? If needed to rebuild it someday anyway, what is true risk in letting it run for now and see what happens?

Tim (Morfoot): we were gonna go do a little multi-testing sometime, be great if we could expedite this and get your opinion on this noise.



Or any other Georgia CCFans with a good ear and a little talent...great opportunity take a Southwind blast on Oconee if you've never been, it's a beautiful lake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fanofccfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 9:14am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:


Pulling trans way over my head

Don't underestimate yourself. Many have done it themselves. You know how to use a wrench and a couple bottle jacks don't you? There are several great threads on it.


Totally agree with Pete in this one...."you can do it"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 9:26am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:


Pulling trans way over my head

Don't underestimate yourself. Many have done it themselves. You know how to use a wrench and a couple bottle jacks don't you? There are several great threads on it.


In theory I suppose, but a daunting task for one with limited skills, tools, $, and no indoor shop space. Outdoor projects like that in Georgia are kinda like working on the surface of the sun.

In the meantime, what do you say on the "might as well rebuild" & how much $$ question, and the "lifespan & true risk of running as is under the theory that it'd need to be rebuilt someday anyway" question?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 10:01am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

In theory I suppose, but a daunting task for one with limited skills, tools, $, and no indoor shop space. Outdoor projects like that in Georgia are kinda like working on the surface of the sun.

I replaced the damper plate on my X55 one year between Christmas and New Years since I wan't it ready for the spring. It was up on the cribbing in the boathouse (no heat) but the overnight low was -25 (not wind chill). I did have a tarp over me and an electric space heater but, I'll tell you, that metal was cold!!! So get some shade over the boat and go for it.

Do you have a socket wrench set?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 10:48am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

   Yes rattles in reverse which is always of course low idle so your theory sounds good. No-wake zone coming out-didn't notice in forward; but no-wake forward is still much faster than reverse so maybe creating enough load.

No, it's not the speed/idle nor the load in forward that's different compared to reverse. In forward, the planetary gear set is locked so the planet gears are not rotating around the sun gear.

If you ever get a chance, take a look at an exploded view of the guts of a marine trans. It will give you a better idea on how they operate.


where might i find exploded view? I'd also like to take a marine mechanic online course or something of that nature, or at least find the best book/source on the subject, ideas?

See no identification/manufacturer info on the trans, could you provide your email and I'll forward the video view? or could you send your email to mine jgkinyoun@yahoo.com?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-13-2012 at 12:47pm
Jeff,
You should have the Borg Warner Velvet drive. It's very common in your boats era. The damper bolts to the flywheel so you do not have to open up the trans.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Jeff,
You should have the Borg Warner Velvet drive. It's very common in your boats era. The damper bolts to the flywheel so you do not have to open up the trans.


Thought it would be a velvet, here's a few pics if u could confirm. Guess I could inspect closer, is there a model#?

Also, while we're at it, where's the NSS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 6:21pm
Jeff,
That is a B/W Velvet. As mentioned, you don't need to open it up to go after the damper plate. In fact, you can leave it bolted up the the bell housing and just unbolt the bell from the engine.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 7:29pm
Jeff,
The pictures are on the small side and it looks like some of the wiring is hiding the NSS so I can't see it directly. It would be on the valve spool cover directly opposite the shift lever. It will have two terminals on it. Follow the "S" terminal wire on the start relay down and see where it goes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-14-2012 at 10:07pm
Jeff, Sorry I'm little late to this party but the earliest I can get there is Thurs night or Friday morning. Gotta head for Warner Robins at about 2:00pm Friday afternoon to pick up my girls for the weekend. Not sure if that works for you but....

74Wind says...."Morfoot...He can ski. He can wakeboard. He can cook chicken. He can create his own self-named beverage. And..can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2012 at 7:03am
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

where might i find exploded view?

There's a real nice exploded view of the trans/bell housing/flywheel/damper in the Velvet drive manual in our reference section. The views are towards the end of this service manual.
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:


See no identification/manufacturer info on the trans, could you provide your email and I'll forward the video view?

How about posting it here so all can see it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2012 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Jeff, Sorry I'm little late to this party but the earliest I can get there is Thurs night or Friday morning. Gotta head for Warner Robins at about 2:00pm Friday afternoon to pick up my girls for the weekend. Not sure if that works for you but....


Weekends work best for me, you have your girls every weekend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2012 at 9:12am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

where might i find exploded view?

There's a real nice exploded view of the trans/bell housing/flywheel/damper in the Velvet drive manual in our reference section. The views are towards the end of this service manual.
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:


See no identification/manufacturer info on the trans, could you provide your email and I'll forward the video view?

How about posting it here so all can see it?


That was my original intention, I'd asked how on my first post & included mpeg sizes, do you know how?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2012 at 9:28am
Jeff,
Sorry but that's one thing I haven't had to do yet on site. Maybe someone else who has posted vids can help. It could be as simple as posting a link????


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-15-2012 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Jeff, Sorry I'm little late to this party but the earliest I can get there is Thurs night or Friday morning. Gotta head for Warner Robins at about 2:00pm Friday afternoon to pick up my girls for the weekend. Not sure if that works for you but....


Weekends work best for me, you have your girls every weekend?


Tim, replied PM to your PM but forgot to add my cell 404-735-0158.

Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoch323 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-16-2012 at 10:22pm
I had a rattle in reverse and the prop was not tight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2012 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Jeff,
Sorry but that's one thing I haven't had to do yet on site. Maybe someone else who has posted vids can help. It could be as simple as posting a link????


may have figured out posting thru youtube (if it works)
Interestingly didn't notice any noise in forward but it sounds like you hear some on the video (odd).

Also attached a little at-speed video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEFRkmTtNWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnZ4INIoJzY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Wind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-17-2012 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by 74Wind 74Wind wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Jeff,
Sorry but that's one thing I haven't had to do yet on site. Maybe someone else who has posted vids can help. It could be as simple as posting a link????


may have figured out posting thru youtube (if it works)
Interestingly didn't notice any noise in forward but it sounds like you hear some on the video (odd).

Also attached a little at-speed video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEFRkmTtNWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnZ4INIoJzY


i give up, how do you post a link and/or youtube?
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