Custom 1965 Correct Craft Mustang build |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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Reverse rotation. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Drained the oil and took off the pan, not very happy. I was hoping to jam my fingers in there and find out this thing is a virgin. No such luck, connecting rods are numbered and the easiest way to tell is the chafing of the face of the rod nuts. Some were put back on same face down, others the shiny side up. To complicate the matter I can't see why it was taken apart in the first place, no undersized bearings, factory sized pistons, EVERYTHING is Ford brand in it ( even the rear main seal!)
Unless... the factory rods are numbered at the factory? And the connecting rod bearings were checked using plastiguage at the factory??? EDIT: also, pistons facing towards the front, didnt see that before! ugh. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Thanks! To be honest I'm kinda glad the flywheel is bad, I had no idea why sometimes the starter was perfect and other times it wouldn't even turn. I believe the rod bolts are similar to head bolts in that your only suppose to reuse them once. This motors been taken apart at least three times, most of the rod nuts didn't even match If you ever have any questions I write a lot of stuff down I just forget to put it on the thread. Today's mission: buy two 7/16 bolts to put the Ford on the stand LOL |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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Sorry about the flywheel issues, but I'm guessing you figured there would be a few added surprises!
Nice work on the Chrysler. I didn't realize upgraded rod bolts were ever needed, am obviously familiar with ARP head bolts but haven't heard people talk about them for rod bolts. I really enjoy your threads/pictures, helps expand my limited rebuild knowledge. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Not mustang related but I finished the Chrysler yay! Everybody likes pics so, here ya go. I determined the failed connecting rod was due to a stretched bolt, as it fell off during disassembly LOL. Got all ARP rod bolts and resize, clevite 77 rod and main bearings. My grinder did an awesome job, each journal specd out to exactly .002 oil clearance. Got a new melling pump, lifters ect ect. Everything went really well but I spent a lot of time double checking crap. The motor was setup for standard rotation... even though its reverse... so I took a lot of time making sure things went in the right way. It was obvious it was messed with many times before. The rockers were actually reversed left and right, the ends barely touched the valve tips! They even faced the pistons forward (should be reversed.) Anyway, here ya go.
I then quickly shoved the Chrysler into the corner and started slaving away at the mustang. Third pic down shows I'm already going to be investing more money on top of the money I really don't have. The flywheel has got quite a few ****ed up teeth, which explains my starting issues. My starter rebuilder guy sys its in perfect shape and im like wtf, it wont crank it over! Well there ya go mystery solved. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Marshall must be a smoother talker His seems to |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Family room , I was afraid because of the huge temp fluxs in the garage that the bearings wouldnt spec correctly |
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Bakchose
Gold Member Joined: November-04-2004 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 554 |
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LOL! Now that is some funny stuff. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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One of the great come-backs in CCFan history! It does kind of look like you are doing the rebuild in the living room in that picture. Nice setup! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Nah not worth it, Ive seen the engine dynos. Chryslers never put out. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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Did you pour that engine a glass of wine and spread some Bree when you cuddled up with it by the fire?
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Ive been very busy last couple months but I'm finally getting around to at least mocking up the Ford.
Rebuilding the Chrysler. Currently waiting on recond connecting rods, cant really dig into the ford until I get this out of the way. Installing a new clutch in the Jeep, not exactly a planned expense. got both heads on the motor, seems the new pushrods will have to be almost an inch longer. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Wellll the crack doesn't go all the way through to the valvetrain (guess I should have stated that, just a surface crack through the seats). And if the valves weren't seating/sealing it wouldn't cause air to somehow enter the crankcase, just the intake or exhaust.
If you back up a couple posts youll see that I got new heads quite a while ago Thanks for more insight! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Head gasket looked good, intake gasket looked well sealed.
It was just the exhaust valve that went bad, intake had a crack in the seat but nothing that could cause a large pressure leak.
Valve guides seem to be in good shape, but the valve seals definitely leak. Seals appear to be properly installed. All the pistons look good, minor carbon buildup on all but nothing that looks bad. All spark plugs look evenly washed. And thanks! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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So you have a cracked head and a valve seat that isnt sealing. It doesnt take much of a leap of faith to see how this might result in a pressurized crank case. Thats what youre experiencing... blow by isnt a symptom, but a potential cause. Replace the head thats cracked, get a valve job done on the other (or just get a new set of heads) and I bet youre in business. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3238 |
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I would pull the suspect piston and examine it since that is the most likely culprit. Before you do so you should examine the heads and old intake gaskets / surfaces carefully. How were your intake gaskets? If the valve seat was destroyed and the valve was not closing / sealing it would be possible, but not likely, that the combustion pressures may have blown out the gasket between the intake manifold and the head causing the combustion pressures to escape into the valley, pressurizing the crankcase. If it was ruptured the intake cycle could draw air / oil into the port and the compression pressure could also force this mixture back into the intake manifold / carburetor. I would not think that this would occurr if the engine is capable of making 50# of compression. A completely destroyed valve guide could cause this condition as well, but it would be very visibly damaged to do this. Are your valve guide seals in the proper positions? If the seal on the dead cylinder has been forced up the valve stem it may indicate a valve guide problem significant enough to cause a problem. Is there a burn mark on the too of the piston? The leaking valve could conceivably cause the mixture to go lean and the resulting high temperature could damage the piston behind the compression ring. How was the plug when you examined it? These are all things that can be easily checked visually. I hope this helps.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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To establish how much pressure their was, the filter elements in the breathers started to push their way out the tubes towards the arrestor! |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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"Shooting oil" is a pretty amazing amount of blow by. I wouldn't expect one cylinder at 50 psi to cause that amount of pressure in the crankcase, though I suppose at WOT it might. The carb though - that's a long path for oil! Has to get past the rings and be blown back up through the faulty intake valve.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Well on my few runs in August after the motor warmed up, at full speed the motor was shooting oil out the breathers and the carb. Seemed to run fine though and could idle very, very low. It would show 120 psi on all cylinders except one, at 50psi. I deemed it a bad ring/piston. Open removing the head on that cylinder, the exhaust seat is completely worn down/gone and it is cracked between the valves. It was most definitely not closing. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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Blow by implies losing cylinder pressure through the piston rings. Perhaps you could tell us what symptoms led you to that diagnosis. Then we could poke holes in your theory rather than guess at what you're seeing.
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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This is a commander motor. Not sure why a company would go the breather route.
Question, if the cross hatching is gone but the walls are not scored could I still have blowby? Seemed to only happen when the motor was warm, which doesn't make sense to me |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21131 |
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PCM 351w's were set up with PCV's from the get go. Sounds like someone modified yours if it only had breathers.
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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No fumes can escape, keeps the spark arrestor cleaner. Not much really. I think it looks nicer too. I'm copying the way they did it on the marinized FE blocks so it should work out just fine
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4239 |
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Jim, what's the advantage of going to a PCV valve instead of the breathers? |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Hussler
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Very interesting development today. Pulled the head on the bank with 50psi on one cylinder to find.... nothing. I was shocked to not see scored walls, as the blowby was quite severe. That was until I looked at the heads. Cracks in between the valves on the middle two cylinders! The plot thickens. Now I done see how those cracks could attribute to blowby. Any thoughts? I cant upload pics from my phone, my laptop literally caught fire in my lap (seemed the screen harness chafed on the hinge and shorted it out)
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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Going to probably start breaking down the motor soon, damn shame to take apart something that runs, oh well I guess its part of the game.
Video VVV Also test fit the exhaust manifold and valve cover to one of the new trickflows, interference of maybe 1/4" tops. I could grind off part of the valve cover but I really want chrome covers anyway (already enroute) If the cover didnt have the decrotive heat sink on top it would have been a non issue. |
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Hussler
Gold Member Joined: February-04-2012 Location: - Status: Offline Points: 895 |
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I was thinking about having a small backer piece sewn onto the back so no pleating or staples showing. |
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