Not another Mustang restoration thread. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I took the end cover down from .0925 to .0870 to remove the wear pattern. The wear plate on the shaft end is reversible and so that came to be. The end plate on the pump off of my "good" engine is much more worn than this one. I am guessing it will take about .0150 to remove the wear pattern on that one. BTW, I found where the rubber chunks in the tranz cooler came from. I included a before and after photo of the end plate on top. The nasty end plate is from my "good" boat.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Bruce, You're asking for trouble posting that photo of your sweet restored Mustang finished the way you chose without your "Pete" filter on. Does he know about that app?
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Covers have seemed to have dried up John. My original is in real bad shape,too far gone to clean up. The one I have been using is starting to get some good grooves in it already too,going to have to just start making them ourself's. The wear plate was,up to last year anyway,could still be found,I got one on ebay.
Our original pump cover is 11850-80 and was superseded by 9280-01 and yet again with 12064-0000 |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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It would be easy to make a new cover. . Stainless steel is an option since it's painted (maybe) and covered by the mounting bracket, and is a lot harder than bronze. You could make a wear plate from SS too.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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John,
I can tell from the color the cover is brass and not bronze like you mentioned. If you do have to make a new cover, I'd stick with the brass. Brass is going to be more corrosion resistant than stainless The stainless being subjected to water for extended periods of time will corrode. Regarding hardness, yes the SS would be harder but the unknown would be would the impeller then wear faster? 6" lengths can be found at McMaster. I'd go for the 360 |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I agree Pete, since you identified the brass and a source. The.cover plates are discontinued but still available through several sources, the cheapest one I could find was $216. I will buy one for my spare pump when I finish the boat but it's not a priority now. Time is running short and there is a lot to do.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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John,
$216!!! WOW! If you don't feel like making one for yourself, take the cover to a machine shop and have them quote CNC machining a quantity for you and sell the extras! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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That's the cheapest I found Pete. The other places are asking $275-$325.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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What diameter is the cover? Several pieces of C360 round stock on ebay for around $20. Simple lathe job. Hole pattern would also be a breeze.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Those are the wrong plates John. The ones you mention are a cast bronze approx 1/4" thick . I bought one as an extra quite a few years ago at a considerabley reduced price from Depco. They told me at the time they were the correct cover but once in hand it was clearly the wrong one,was not even round. The brass triangle plate in Sherwood G21 pumps has been changed to stainless also.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7948 |
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John, I would guess that the PO of our boat, 1962 Classic, like you, thought the copper and brass looked too nice to paint. We've left it as is as he also had the pulleys chromed and we're happy with the appearance of the engine the way that it is, and the boat needs so much work we're not going to start doing the engine over. The copper does dull over time. It can be painted anytime. Your parts look great. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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The cover on this pump is the one they are trying to sell as a replacement for ours-
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I did a little more checking. These 11830-0000 and 11831-0000 end plates look correct and are very inexpensive. I ordered one for the spare. I will let you know how it looks. $25.15 delivered to my door..
Jabsco 11830-0000 |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I received the cover yesterday. No real surprise, the screw pattern is different than the 11850-80. The dimensions are 0.10 X 3" if anyone wants to try to make one. It would be very easy with only basic metalworking tools since Pete found the stock.
Engine's at the shop, after an assessment the magic # is .030. I should get it back in a couple of weeks. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Can anyone tell me how much clearance there is between the top of the flame arrester and the motorbox on a Ford 302? I forgot to measure it before disassembly.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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John, Why? What are you doing? Do I need to talk to you about originality again? |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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As we discussed I am not reusing the C8OE heads. They need to be acid dipped, magnafluxed, stellite seats installed, stainless valves, springs tension checked and possibly replaced, new seals and a valve job. The GT40P heads are good but by the time they are built they cost more than a new set of aluminum Ford Racing E303-X turbo swirl heads by a knock off manufacturer fully assembled and ready to go. They are possibly more similar to the C8OEs than the GT40Ps are as far as external cosmetic differences. It would also look nice with a little bling like the H/M aluminum intake manifold from that era which is still produced by H/M. I believe it would be very close to original in appearance especially since the heads are masked by the exhaust, intake and chrome valve covers. It is possible the H/M intake is 1-2" higher than the iron one on there now,,but I haven't emailed to check yet. The boat will lose about 74# just with the intake and heads, and I'm sure it will wake the engine up a bit, although it should have adequate power stock. It is interesting to note that the engine had severe scale in the water jacket, but the aluminum timing cover had no corrosion in the water passages. It appears aluminum holds up better than iron in the marine environment this boat was subjected to for some reason. Multiple drivers will use this boat and it will be kept on a lift. It will not be a boathouse queen and I'm sure it will get dinged up a bit. Talking with Jan about it I don't think anyone in the family who uses it cares about these issues and other than some Correct Craft reunions I doubt it will ever be on display, except for Greers Tiki Bar. I need to keep moving forward. Holman Moody Intake
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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You are forgiven!
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Thanks Pete, I think the only thing a casual enthusiast will notice may be the aluminum intake, and if painted, possibly not even that. Most will probably assume they came on it since it's the proper era and MFG. I lost another 8-10 lbs with the plastic fuel tank and could lose another 35# with a lightweight Braille battery for a total of around 119#. . Now I just need to work on my fat a**. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I want to be perfectly clear on my oil pump and distributor rotation direction. They rotate in the same direction on this reverse rotation engine as they do on a standard rotation engine, correct? I am replacing the oil pump and doing some ignition work and I really want to be certain. I believe it has been asked and answered several times so I apologize for not trusting previous posts.
Thanks. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41040 |
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John,
Yes, you are correct that the rotation is the same. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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While planning the electrical system last night I found this option. The original engine harness is in fair condition and is functional , but very messy behind the panel and on the engine. If I can't clean it up and make it neat I may go this route. It would be like the original 3 piece engine harness.They sell all three sections necessary with connectors molded on.
Pre-made 3 piece wire harness |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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So surprise, they just bend the studs to fit the adapter. I guess I will have to bend them if I opt for the H/M aluminum manifold. So that clearance question, does anyone know the answer? Is there 2" of clearance for the arrester? If I should get a wild hair and go with a DUI will it fit?
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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LeftFieldEngineering
Senior Member Joined: December-20-2010 Location: Monson, MA Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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I have the equipment & would be interested in machining the covers if their still needed.
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turningpoint84
Platinum Member Joined: September-11-2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
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John,
How is everything going? Peter |
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Proud 1968 mustang owner and now
1970 Mustang |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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Doing well Peter, hope you are too. Will I see you in MW this summer? I As always I have a lot of stuff begging for attention and I have not been able to devote the time to the Mustang it deserves. I visited the engine last Saturday, it's bored but not honed yet. The parts are on order. I hope it will be done by the end of April but I'll be travelling again by then. This Alumitoon project got my attention since Jan can't go without a floating patio. I got a "new to me" engine for it last year. I never liked the plastic gas tank on a pad so I had this fabed up. I'm doing the engine pad today. Now I can put a boarding ladder where the tank used to go and clean up the look a bit. Back to work on the Mustang soon. Give me a ring if you're coming up and have time to get together. I'd love to see your Mustang again. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I CPESed the new plywood for my 'toon motor pad and it went farther than I remembered on the new ply. I had a bit left over so I tried it on the top of about 10" of Mustang stringer I had prepared. Holy moly, that old stringer is literally like a sponge. It hasn't been in the water for 14-15 years and that wood is soooooo dry. I bought a quart to see how it goes. I may need a gallon before this is done. I didn't remember the odor being as strong as it is either. Not bad outside but when I put the stuff in the garage to keep it warm for the night the odor of the evaporating solvents is overpowering.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3236 |
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I am experimenting and trying to sharpen my skills working with the epoxy I will use on the Mustang. Better to to make my mistake with small pieces of wood than the Mustang hull. I thickened the epoxy I used to laminate these with cabosil. it took more than I thought to get the job done.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Yea that cpes is smelly stuff good thing your garage is separate ! Won't take you long to get the hang of glassing
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turningpoint84
Platinum Member Joined: September-11-2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
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John,
Awesome job on hiding the pontoon gas tank, need to do the same on our eventually! The wife and I will be up July 2nd-10th, hopefully we can meet up, could definitely use your help on winterizing again probably haha. I plan to put her in the water on the 2nd! So hopefully yours will be done also and we can show them off at Greer's together! |
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Proud 1968 mustang owner and now
1970 Mustang |
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