HOORAY!!! I think I have Wet Foam |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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Posted: October-11-2011 at 7:23pm |
When I purchased this Mustang, I thought it felt heavy when towing it home. I was used to towing an 18' I/O with a 4 cylinder and my truck felt like it was pulling something alot heavier when I pulled the CC. As I surfed this site, I read the stories of wet foam and stringer repair jobs and started to think that I too may have that problem. We took the boat to the lake for the first time Saturday and it ran great [trans may be slipping a little(ok alot)]. When it was at the dock, I noticed it listed to the starboard side and I believe it sits low in the water. The boot stripe is under water at the rear of the boat. Thank goodness that the members here have done foam removal, stringer repair and documented the process as well as discussed foam / no foam. My next step is to drill some 2" holes and dig for water. I'm not that upset at the wet foam or the trans slipping because it will give me the opportunity to become better acquainted with the boat this winter. Just thinking out loud and trying to convince myself that it's just another opportunity to learn something.
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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It's becoming a right of passage. We'll see you over coffee!
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I love those 70's mustangs! Without question you are going to find water and rot. You will never pay anybody to touch your boat after this winter. Get reading and get ready, and we'll be eagerly awaiting your progress over our morning coffee!
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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I pulled up part of the floor yesterday. I'm not surprised that the foam was wet, the floor is in 5 pieces just sitting on the stringers, nice fit, but not water tight. There are 2 center access panels over the rear bilge area and under the back seat(not a problem), 2 side panels from the transom to the ski pylon and a front section under the drivers seat. I'm definitely replacing the stringers, re foaming (if I use pool noodles no one will ever know because I won't post photographs!!). I have attached photos of soaking wet foam with a puddle at the bottom of the foam and rotten stringer / floor supports. I am not very smart because I'm actually looking forward to cleaning up this mess so that I can have trouble free boating in a cool boat (my opinion) next year. Next step is to gut the interior, pull the engine and trans and get out my sawzall.
Cavity next to the exhaust Floor support over exhaust Floor support around pylon Floor at front of bilge in battery box area under drivers seat |
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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make sure you take lots of picks to relate positioning to for reassembly. also i used a tape measure in my picks to reference things
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Did you make sure you put the plug in before you launched? Had to ask because i've never seen a CC sit that low in the water!
You will be more proud of your boat than anyone who buys a new one! Enjoy the process, we'll be looking forward to pictures! |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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HA!! Yeah I put the plug in, but I can understand why you asked. About 25 years ago I launched my first boat and noticed water coming out from under the engine cover. It was a mad scramble to find the plug and get it in the hole (my specialty) before I sunk. Once you do that you learn a lesson for life. I think it looks lower than it really is because it is listing pretty badly. More water in the starboard foam I'm guessing. I am wondering where the water is getting in?? Maybe the exhaust on that side is leaking. I guess I will find out soon enough. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Two questions that can't be asked enough:
1. Is my drysuit zipped? 2. Is the plug in? |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Joel...LOL!
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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P71_CrownVic
Gold Member Joined: July-07-2008 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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Well played sir! Well played..... |
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charger496
Senior Member Joined: August-06-2010 Location: atlanta, ga Status: Offline Points: 157 |
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Most people embarking on this endeavor don't have such a positive frame of mind, but it's definately a plus! We'll see after a couple weeks of you walking around with "boat...boat...boat" swimming around in your brain. It's an addiction. By the way, send that trans to Eric at Fantastic Finishes. It'll never slip again.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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Interesting- got any better pictures? Based on the way youre describing it, that does not sound like the original floor. Originally, your boat would have had a fiberglass skin over the foam and stringers, and then another (~1/2") layer of non-sealed wood floor above that. The second (wood) layer would have been for impact resistance and cosmetics (it would have been wrapped in vinyl or carpeted) only- it was not a seal. That was the job of the glass layer below it. If you didnt have that layer of glass, I wonder if a previous owner had replaced the floor and failed to seal it back up properly? That may explain the extensive amount of water your hull must be holding in order to be sitting in the water that low! The only other boat Ive seen sit so low in the water was Roy's Ski Tique. |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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That will change. I think digging foam, and the subsequent grinding are by far the worst part of the job. Peter's suggestion about using a tape measure in your pics is a great one. I did that on tons of pics relating to various mounting points and joints. Makes it easy to reconcile some of the different head scratching moments you will run across. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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Mike,
I have tremendous respect for your opinion. I read your thread on foam removal and stringer repair (and quite a few others) a couple of times already and I'm sure I will read it more. You did a great job, I hope that I can occasionally lean on your experience in the future. I figure that if I pace myself over the winter I will get done by spring. Wes |
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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Tim,
I wanted to thank you for a thread somewhere in the past where you provided links to about 6 different foam /stringer jobs. That saved me alot of searching time. I read all of those links especially Keegans and Wakeslayers since their boats are close to my vintage and style. I think mine sits a little lower in the water than Roys, but it is close. The floor does have a layer of glass over the stringers and foam and half inch carpeted non sealed wood over that. It may have been replaced, I'm not sure. You can kind of see the fiberglass jagged edges in the first photo next to my hand. I pulled it up with my hand and snapped a piece 3 inches wide and 10 inches long off to expose the foam. The glass floor extended partially over the exhaust cavity. There are cracks in the fiberglass where it meets the main stringers next to the bilge next to the engine. I will take better photos this weekend and post them. Picked up some Chineese food and this was in my fortune cookie I think it should have said "Boats FULL of Water" |
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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"15 garbage bags full of water and foam are in your future"
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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Removed the interior and the carpet covered plywood floor. What was underneath is shown in the photos below. There is a dark outline extending out from the sides of the engine back to the transom in a rectangular pattern. Could be a patch job gone bad. Next step is to yank the engine and trans, sawzall up the fiberglass and get out the flat tine pitchfork, hammer, flat bar and plastic explosives.
Rectangular dark area- possible patch? Right side- Missing fiberglass is where I inspected for wet foam Dark foam under tank and on floor- possible fuel leak? laboratory tests indicated that this area can hold a mass of less than or equal to 224 lbs.- definitely not a "deuce and a quarter" |
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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critter
Platinum Member Joined: January-11-2008 Location: New Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 1227 |
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You are where you need to be. Looks like you have
a good start. Now come the many trash bags. From the looks of your "laboratory test",, I would bet that stringer is no better under that glass. |
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1980 Ski Nautique
1966 Barracuda |
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bbishop1974
Senior Member Joined: May-16-2010 Location: rindge,nh Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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that is some serious rot!rest of the boat looks really clean,i love that style.iam at the same point as you,pulling engine today on the 86'.good luck
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politicallycorrect
Senior Member Joined: May-19-2011 Location: vermont Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Or water in your boats. I really like your mustang. Same color scheme as our southwind. I've slowly been tearing into her to put new stringers in. Its a labor of love, but the guys on this site are great support! You thinking foam or no foam?? Scott |
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Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!!
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politicallycorrect
Senior Member Joined: May-19-2011 Location: vermont Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!!
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1722 |
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the patch job you refer to looks remarkably simailar to the floor of the marauder 19. when i saw mine i thought is was an isolated incident when they installed the turbos. maybe not?
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wwchevy
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 369 |
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Thanks Scott,
I am thinking foam right now because of the flotation and possible structural benefits, but I have the fear that if I put foam back in I am just setting myself up for doing this same job over. If the closed cell foam doesn't hold water and if I make the floor water tight I should be alright with foam. If any of the above are not true, I will be low riding in the water and thinking of putting spinners on the trailer wheels. I'm really struggling with this decision (and weather to buy the old blue burgee or the newer white and red one). I guess I will keep reading the posts on the subject and decide at the last minute- Foam, No Foam, Pool Noodles???? Bill, I am going to examine the patch job real closely when I tear the floor out. I am puzzled by it. Good to hear that I'm not alone in this endeavour. The glove box I got from you is the only thing solid in the boat, Thanks. |
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wwchevy
1989 Barefoot Nautique |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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if you look at it this way, the USCG requires foam in new boats under 22ft, which necessarily does not mean in a rebuilt boat, it is a necessary evil, it has nothing to do on the engineers table to where they said we are going to use foam for structural integrity, what happened is the coastie's said to new boat manufacturers that it must float if sunk under no other conditions without taking into account that these boats are primarily for inland lake and river use, they dont take into account that on a ski boat, most operators are ex-lifegaurds and were born with fins and duck feet. now I cant remember in the last 5 years on this site of a boat sinking and someone dying, if so it would be under very unusual circumstances and yes accidents do happen and if your in a life threatening situation the last thing you should care about is your precious boat going under, and I think thats the persona, save the boat, not save the lives? maybe?
you do have physical evidence of what foam does to a boat many times over, and if you re-engineer your boat the way a boat should be built it will have air tight pockets that will not fill with water quickly, you will add re-enforcements to make the boat structurally sound so you can wash away the fear of a solid piece of fiberglass going across flat water cracking in half. its been a debate for years, and I think if you took a poll here you would see the ones with a high amount of postings and have been around these boats for quite some time opt not to re-foam. it does not de-value the boat, no one is telling you that you have to re-foam, really, I would love to hear all the pros/cons on your personal reasons for foaming a boat and the here are some of my feelings on why not to re-foam. 1. you can build a more solid/lighter structure without it 2. i no doubt traps water 3. it saturates with water with no evidence that it does not 4. its expensive 5. without it, there is not much chance of the boat ever rotting again |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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You'd be surprised... |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21109 |
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That "patch job" is most likely a result of a previous owner replacing the exhaust hoses. Most of the foamed boats prior to '73 had their exhaust hoses sealed up below the floor. To replace them, you needed to cut the glass out around them and remove the foam. Looks like whoever replaced yours put the foam back in but didnt seal the floor back up!
You can almost make out the sealed exhaust cavities on my '71 Skier in this pic: |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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You are in it now! Get that engine out of your way and get the vinyl out before doing too much more grinding etc. Yo seem to be on the right path.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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My boat went roughly 20 years with the original foam. I figure to get at least that out of the work that went into my re-string. No?
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I would think it should last even longer than that with epoxy and using 5200 etc.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4492 |
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Definately going to last longer with CPES, Epoxy and 5200.
Is this insulation under the gas tank? |
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