HOORAY!!! I think I have Wet Foam
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23813
Printed Date: April-28-2024 at 5:56am
Topic: HOORAY!!! I think I have Wet Foam
Posted By: wwchevy
Subject: HOORAY!!! I think I have Wet Foam
Date Posted: October-11-2011 at 7:23pm
When I purchased this Mustang, I thought it felt heavy when towing it home. I was used to towing an 18' I/O with a 4 cylinder and my truck felt like it was pulling something alot heavier when I pulled the CC. As I surfed this site, I read the stories of wet foam and stringer repair jobs and started to think that I too may have that problem. We took the boat to the lake for the first time Saturday and it ran great [trans may be slipping a little(ok alot)]. When it was at the dock, I noticed it listed to the starboard side and I believe it sits low in the water. The boot stripe is under water at the rear of the boat. Thank goodness that the members here have done foam removal, stringer repair and documented the process as well as discussed foam / no foam. My next step is to drill some 2" holes and dig for water. I'm not that upset at the wet foam or the trans slipping because it will give me the opportunity to become better acquainted with the boat this winter. Just thinking out loud and trying to convince myself that it's just another opportunity to learn something.
 ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-11-2011 at 9:32pm
|
It's becoming a right of passage. We'll see you over coffee! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: October-11-2011 at 10:28pm
I love those 70's mustangs! Without question you are going to find water and rot. You will never pay anybody to touch your boat after this winter.  Get reading and get ready, and we'll be eagerly awaiting your progress over our morning coffee! ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 11:47am
I pulled up part of the floor yesterday. I'm not surprised that the foam was wet, the floor is in 5 pieces just sitting on the stringers, nice fit, but not water tight. There are 2 center access panels over the rear bilge area and under the back seat(not a problem), 2 side panels from the transom to the ski pylon and a front section under the drivers seat. I'm definitely replacing the stringers, re foaming (if I use pool noodles no one will ever know because I won't post photographs!!). I have attached photos of soaking wet foam with a puddle at the bottom of the foam and rotten stringer / floor supports. I am not very smart because I'm actually looking forward to cleaning up this mess so that I can have trouble free boating in a cool boat (my opinion) next year. Next step is to gut the interior, pull the engine and trans and get out my sawzall.
Cavity next to the exhaust 
Floor support over exhaust 
Floor support around pylon 
Floor at front of bilge in battery box area under drivers seat ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 4:24pm
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make sure you take lots of picks to relate positioning to for reassembly. also i used a tape measure in my picks to reference things ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 5:59pm
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Did you make sure you put the plug in before you launched? Had to ask because i've never seen a CC sit that low in the water!
You will be more proud of your boat than anyone who buys a new one! Enjoy the process, we'll be looking forward to pictures! ------------- |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 9:52pm
HA!! Yeah I put the plug in, but I can understand why you asked. About 25 years ago I launched my first boat and noticed water coming out from under the engine cover. It was a mad scramble to find the plug and get it in the hole (my specialty) before I sunk. Once you do that you learn a lesson for life. I think it looks lower than it really is because it is listing pretty badly. More water in the starboard foam I'm guessing. I am wondering where the water is getting in?? Maybe the exhaust on that side is leaking. I guess I will find out soon enough. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 10:07pm
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Two questions that can't be asked enough:
1. Is my drysuit zipped? 2. Is the plug in? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 1:45am
|
Joel...LOL!
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: P71_CrownVic
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 3:03am
Well played sir! Well played..... ------------- |
wwchevy wrote:Posted By: charger496
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 12:13pm
| Most people embarking on this endeavor don't have such a positive frame of mind, but it's definately a plus! We'll see after a couple weeks of you walking around with "boat...boat...boat" swimming around in your brain. It's an addiction. By the way, send that trans to Eric at Fantastic Finishes. It'll never slip again. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 4:00pm
Interesting- got any better pictures? Based on the way youre describing it, that does not sound like the original floor. Originally, your boat would have had a fiberglass skin over the foam and stringers, and then another (~1/2") layer of non-sealed wood floor above that. The second (wood) layer would have been for impact resistance and cosmetics (it would have been wrapped in vinyl or carpeted) only- it was not a seal. That was the job of the glass layer below it. If you didnt have that layer of glass, I wonder if a previous owner had replaced the floor and failed to seal it back up properly? That may explain the extensive amount of water your hull must be holding in order to be sitting in the water that low! The only other boat Ive seen sit so low in the water was Roy's Ski Tique.  ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 8:35pm
That will change. I think digging foam, and the subsequent grinding are by far the worst part of the job. Peter's suggestion about using a tape measure in your pics is a great one. I did that on tons of pics relating to various mounting points and joints. Makes it easy to reconcile some of the different head scratching moments you will run across. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-21-2011 at 1:29am
|
Mike,
I have tremendous respect for your opinion. I read your thread on foam removal and stringer repair (and quite a few others) a couple of times already and I'm sure I will read it more. You did a great job, I hope that I can occasionally lean on your experience in the future. I figure that if I pace myself over the winter I will get done by spring. Wes ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-21-2011 at 1:54am
|
Tim,
I wanted to thank you for a thread somewhere in the past where you provided links to about 6 different foam /stringer jobs. That saved me alot of searching time. I read all of those links especially Keegans and Wakeslayers since their boats are close to my vintage and style. I think mine sits a little lower in the water than Roys, but it is close. The floor does have a layer of glass over the stringers and foam and half inch carpeted non sealed wood over that. It may have been replaced, I'm not sure. You can kind of see the fiberglass jagged edges in the first photo next to my hand. I pulled it up with my hand and snapped a piece 3 inches wide and 10 inches long off to expose the foam. The glass floor extended partially over the exhaust cavity. There are cracks in the fiberglass where it meets the main stringers next to the bilge next to the engine. I will take better photos this weekend and post them. Picked up some Chineese food and this was in my fortune cookie 
I think it should have said "Boats FULL of Water"  ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: October-21-2011 at 12:44pm
|
"15 garbage bags full of water and foam are in your future" ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 1:15am
Removed the interior and the carpet covered plywood floor. What was underneath is shown in the photos below. There is a dark outline extending out from the sides of the engine back to the transom in a rectangular pattern. Could be a patch job gone bad. Next step is to yank the engine and trans, sawzall up the fiberglass and get out the flat tine pitchfork, hammer, flat bar and plastic explosives.
Rectangular dark area- possible patch? 
Right side- Missing fiberglass is where I inspected for wet foam 
Dark foam under tank and on floor- possible fuel leak? 
laboratory tests indicated that this area can hold a mass of less than or equal to 224 lbs.- definitely not a "deuce and a quarter" ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 2:08am
|
You are where you need to be. Looks like you have
a good start. Now come the many trash bags. From the looks of your "laboratory test",  , I would bet
that stringer is no better under that glass. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 12:03pm
that is some serious rot!rest of the boat looks really clean,i love that style.iam at the same point as you,pulling engine today on the 86'.good luck 
|
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 12:14pm
Or water in your boats. I really like your mustang. Same color scheme as our southwind. I've slowly been tearing into her to put new stringers in. Its a labor of love, but the guys on this site are great support! You thinking foam or no foam?? Scott ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 12:14pm
------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 1:04pm
| the patch job you refer to looks remarkably simailar to the floor of the marauder 19. when i saw mine i thought is was an isolated incident when they installed the turbos. maybe not? |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 3:53pm
|
Thanks Scott,
I am thinking foam right now because of the flotation and possible structural benefits, but I have the fear that if I put foam back in I am just setting myself up for doing this same job over. If the closed cell foam doesn't hold water and if I make the floor water tight I should be alright with foam. If any of the above are not true, I will be low riding in the water and thinking of putting spinners on the trailer wheels. I'm really struggling with this decision (and weather to buy the old blue burgee or the newer white and red one). I guess I will keep reading the posts on the subject and decide at the last minute- Foam, No Foam, Pool Noodles???? Bill, I am going to examine the patch job real closely when I tear the floor out. I am puzzled by it. Good to hear that I'm not alone in this endeavour. The glove box I got from you is the only thing solid in the boat, Thanks. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 4:24pm
|
if you look at it this way, the USCG requires foam in new boats under 22ft, which necessarily does not mean in a rebuilt boat, it is a necessary evil, it has nothing to do on the engineers table to where they said we are going to use foam for structural integrity, what happened is the coastie's said to new boat manufacturers that it must float if sunk under no other conditions without taking into account that these boats are primarily for inland lake and river use, they dont take into account that on a ski boat, most operators are ex-lifegaurds and were born with fins and duck feet. now I cant remember in the last 5 years on this site of a boat sinking and someone dying, if so it would be under very unusual circumstances and yes accidents do happen and if your in a life threatening situation the last thing you should care about is your precious boat going under, and I think thats the persona, save the boat, not save the lives? maybe?
you do have physical evidence of what foam does to a boat many times over, and if you re-engineer your boat the way a boat should be built it will have air tight pockets that will not fill with water quickly, you will add re-enforcements to make the boat structurally sound so you can wash away the fear of a solid piece of fiberglass going across flat water cracking in half. its been a debate for years, and I think if you took a poll here you would see the ones with a high amount of postings and have been around these boats for quite some time opt not to re-foam. it does not de-value the boat, no one is telling you that you have to re-foam, really, I would love to hear all the pros/cons on your personal reasons for foaming a boat and the here are some of my feelings on why not to re-foam. 1. you can build a more solid/lighter structure without it 2. i no doubt traps water 3. it saturates with water with no evidence that it does not 4. its expensive 5. without it, there is not much chance of the boat ever rotting again ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 6:08pm
You'd be surprised... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 9:49pm
|
That "patch job" is most likely a result of a previous owner replacing the exhaust hoses. Most of the foamed boats prior to '73 had their exhaust hoses sealed up below the floor. To replace them, you needed to cut the glass out around them and remove the foam. Looks like whoever replaced yours put the foam back in but didnt seal the floor back up!
You can almost make out the sealed exhaust cavities on my '71 Skier in this pic:  ------------- |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 1:26am
|
You are in it now! Get that engine out of your way and get the vinyl out before doing too much more grinding etc. Yo seem to be on the right path. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 8:33am
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My boat went roughly 20 years with the original foam. I figure to get at least that out of the work that went into my re-string. No? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 4:39pm
|
I would think it should last even longer than that with epoxy and using 5200 etc. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 6:35pm
|
Definately going to last longer with CPES, Epoxy and 5200.
Is this insulation under the gas tank?  ------------- |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 11:07pm
The insulation is not under the tank but it looks like it was oversprayed onto the tank and is in the gap where the tank sits on the wooden support. Wet foam, metal tank- it may have a hole in it. I'm not going to be able to work on the boat until the weekend, but once I get everything put of the boat I will know for sure.  ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-24-2011 at 11:21pm
|
I'm glad you posted Eric, I don't really have a formal pro/ con list but I should write one down. This whole project has my head spinning, but i have time because I am doing this over the winter. I have read a bunch of posts by some very knowledgable and talented people who have discussed the foam/ no foam controversy and have ended up going in both directions. Something you said really hit home for me- I have evidence of what wet foam does to a boat. In the stringer rebuild threads one common theme is that the people on this site have gone above and beyond what the factory would have done. Every stringer and support have been sealed, epoxied, and glassed the way God intended. Closed cell foam is definitely different than the open cell foam that CC used. I just don't want to ever do this job again, not because it is difficult and expensive but I would much rather spend my time wiping out skiing and barrel rolling across the reservior than disassembling the boat again. I'm leaning to no foam now
When I get the engine and trans out I would like to send the trans to you for a rebuild. I have a milk crate empty and waiting. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 10:00am
|
thats me and take it with a grain of salt, it is completely acceptable to re-foam, its impossible to know if a boat is completely sealed, all it takes is one pin hole to take water in and there is no way to test or even observe this. but over the years these are the only boats that i see that completely rot and its due to the design and the foam, sure boats rot, maybe just a keel board or a transom and thats because it sits in the water year after year...but think about, these boats sit on a trailer for 98% of their lives and they are the ones that rot the most, and its due to trapped/saturated foam ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 10:07am
|
maybe a good understandable comparison would be the salt on the roads up here in Ohio, if you owned a Lamborgini would you drive it on the salty roads? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 10:54am
|
I wonder what shape these boats would be in if a couple of small design changes had been made way back, and I'm not picking on CC here. For example: maybe the manufacturer of the vent hose told CC that their target environment for the product was fine. 20 years later, those of us with stringer job(s) behind us see that the vent hose clearly didn't hold up for the same 20 years, and I know none of us have nosed into a wake.
Another example: I can see a marine engineer not putting tons of thought into the battery cable ducting(box to bilge)since the box shouldn't be full of water. My boat was nasty when I got it, and I washed and rinsed everywhere. I didn't think anything about spraying water right into the front vents-they should drain, right? Of course it's a moot point, but those of you with original boats might not want to use the 'douse the gal' trick anymore. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 2:14pm
Anyone else find it interesting that old Century's with no foam seem to be solid as a rock? My 70 skier came without foam and is extremely solid for being left outside and neglected most of it's life. Here's a picture after I pulled the floor and found the bilge full of ice. Believe it or not, the stringers are solid with the exception of a few cross braces.
The rebuilds here are much more extensive than what came from the factory (not trying to dis CC here) so I feel the foam will be even less of an issue for those boats. In my eyes, the only thing that makes me lean towards foam is the fact that it will possibly absorb some of the vibration of the water and make for a smoother ride? ------------- |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 2:28pm
|
I am curious now. Is the flotation foam in CCs open cell? I foamed my last restoration of another make boat, but I used the U S Composites product that is advertised as closed cell. It is available in different densities. prior to using it I saw a thread on one boat site, (I believe it was Glastron because I was restoring one about then) where a member had cast a cube of US Composites material and submersed it in water for about a year. He removed it periodically and weighed it. The weight gain was negligible, something on the order of a fraction of a gram if I remember correctly. It seemed to show that the new materials don't absorb water like the old stuff does. I also saw where some of the members had gone with no foam and sealed up the void for air chamber flotation. Several had made drain channels so water could drain between compartments and into the bilge. The compartments were sealed from the bilge by a drain plug. Several had gone even farther and had located small deck access fittings with screw on caps in inconspicuous areas in the floor. These caps were the screw in cover design. The owner would remove the caps and replace one of them with a cap he he'd modified to accept the hose from a shop vac. With this arrangement you could simply hook up the shop vac to one hole and suck large quantities of air through the under floor compartments drying them out. You can even monitor the humidity level of the discharge air if you are totally A/R. I guess this just shows that there are many solutions, its up to your imagination and others experience. I am not sure what I would do on my next boat. There are good arguments for both foam and no foam.
Good Luck! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 2:31pm
I think thats a lesser concern. Youve had your Skier in the water, right? Did you note more vibration than a foamed boat? What about Joe's '83? Or our BFN? I think the biggest 2 drivers whether to foam or not are 1)build complexity (no need for extra ribs or cross bracing with foam, nor a fancy floor material) and 2)safety. The second is sort of debatable, as I believe its been documented that a waterlogged (foam) boat will still sink. If you think theres a legitimate chance of your boat heading to the bottom based on where you do your boating, then refoaming is a consideration... but there are other ways around that as well (foam under the gunnels, etc). ------------- |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 2:38pm
|
Still haven't had that boat in the water yet. It may get some attention this winter but I've been saying that for how many years now?!
The 83 and BFN have a significant amount of cross bracing compared to what is in the Skier above! Guess I need to dump that thing in the water and go for a ride, huh? Without the cross bracing like you and Joe have, would you guess the hull to pick up more of the vibration from the water? And would a smaller hull make it more prominent? ------------- |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 2:45pm
| I can say that my 72 Mark Twain was significantly quieter after I foamed it. It was most noticeable on rough water. I can't say whether this was due to the bottom being more rigid, or it just absorbed a lot of sound. I didn't really notice any difference in vibration or handling, but the floor had a more solid feel as well. Lake Michigan is a good test bed for rough water too. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 12:25am
|
John, Green Lake is enough rough water testing thank you! Foam or no foam you won't be hearing nothing when you get your HM's running ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 1:28am
|
Green Lake is one of my favorite lakes anywhere. A day boating on it is like a day spent in heaven. I used to stay at the Heidel House now and then before it burned down in the 70s and I have been there after the rebuild as well. I know what you mean about the chop, it reminds me of Lake Geneva. That said, there are seldom 5-7 footers to contend with. it was not uncommon to launch my boat high enough to get 2-3 seconds of air time for my prop coming off a big one in the Chicago Ocean. I would not take the Mustang out there. I would be cautious on Green Lake with it as well, they seem to have little freeboard. I will visit Green Lake for the reunion next year if I get it running in time. I will probably go even if I don't just to meet some members and enjoy the CC eye candy.
Let's see, to foam or not to foam........ |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 1:42am
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I have been in some very rough water in the Florida Keys but I understand that the rollers in the Great Lakes are different than anywhere else,after all I am old enough to remember the Edmund Fitzgerald ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 1:52am
| Funny you would mention that ship. The marina on my chain is called Greer's Pier. It is owned by Greer, his real name is Edmund G Fitzgerald. The ship was named after his grandfather. |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 2:35am
|
sitting here looking at a picture of the 'Big Fitz' here in the computer room. always wanted to spend a summer on a Lakes freighter.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 10:00am
|
caught a show on the Fitz, if i remember correctly it snapped in half? the way they could tell was from the cable hand rails were snapped, the boat would go between waves and flex convex, obviously when the boat got a center wave the cables would sag, think i have it bacerds ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: October-26-2011 at 10:47am
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Yipee! I know that I do! ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-27-2011 at 11:20pm
It looks like you were exactly right. I peeled back some of the darker fiberglass and found circular saw cut lines and Great Stuff foam where they covered the exhaust....guess they forgot to seal it up with fiberglass. Must have been a MC mechanic I can't wait until Saturday when I cut the floor out and start digging out the foam and water. Once that is done I am towing it to the pole barn where I am storing it so I can work on it at my leisure.
 ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: October-30-2011 at 11:35pm
Started removing wet foam today, Where in the H*ll does all this water come from-(I know...the lake). Has anyone found a smoking gun? Holes in the hull, leaks in the exhaust hoses, leaks around hull penetrations, wet speedos?? Thought I would update with photos. 3 garbage bags of wet foam down 12 more to go.
A little Damp water with gasoline mixed in. 
Sweet!!! 
Potential crack in exhaust hose?? ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 6:51pm
|
Finally removed all of the foam, 18 bags in all. I didn't weigh it all but at around 40 lbs each I am guessing conservatively 700 lbs wet foam. I had gasoline soaked foam in the rear port corner, probably due to a small leak in the tank. When I removed the foam around the exhaust, I noticed that the through hull exhaust fitting to hose connection in that same corner had deteriorated and the hose was mushroomed just past the clamp. That same exhaust fitting did not protrude outside of the transom as far as the starboard side. I'm not sure why- maybe it was pushed in? I believe it leaked water where the through hull exhaust fitting should have been sealed. I bought a cherry picker off Craigslist for $60.00 and am now going to remove the engine and pull the wiring harness back through the tube and secure under the dash.
I am about to trailer the boat to the pole barn where I am storing it, should I fabricate temporary cross braces (floor supports)to connect the main stringers to the secondary stringers? Should I be concerned about the hull flexing during transport? 
Left side pushed in, not sure why?? 
Exhaust hose deteriorated and mushroomed, due to contact with gasoline soaked foam?? ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 7:37pm
|
Looking good! I wouldn't worry about too much hull flex at this point. My Skier has the same amount of support with the exception of the floor which was simply screwed to the tops of the primary stringers.
Looks like you've already pulled your exhaust hoses...I would have been curious to swing by the ramp with all the foam out to test if you could see the leak and see the difference from the weight. ------------- |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 7:46pm
|
Wow Wes... I don't think I've seen one as wet in all the other teardown threads I've seen on this site. Looks like you have a great start and some room to work on it indoors. Good luck! ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 8:00pm
DAAAAANG! Chris, I really wish I had thought of that.  I just pulled the exhaust about 5 hours ago AND I had the day off work today too. I really would like to have seen a smoking gun as to how this much water got in the foam. I will make sure everything is sealed up when it goes back together hopefully fixing whatever was wrong. It would have been alot more fun seeing water gush in somewhere like the Titanic. Oh well, live and learn.------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 8:07pm
|
I'd say it's not the end of the world as you know you have to replace that exhaust hose anyway. After you replace it, you can float it then see if you still have a leak.
Not sure if you're planning to re-foam or not, but I'd vote in favor of finding away to not foam around the exhaust. And, if you can, try to float before you totally button up the floor. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 8:23pm
I think that goes without saying! It only took CC a few years of foaming boats to figure out that was a bad idea... they stopped foaming the exhaust in by 1973. I would recommend borrowing the secondary stringer design from a boat a few model years newer. Keegan has some good pictures in his thread- I believe I posted some pictures of the stringers from my '78 Ski Tique, which shared the same hull. The removable panel spans both the primary and secondary stringers, so the exhaust hoses are fully serviceable long after you finish your stringer/floor job. ------------- |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 9:39pm
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The way my floor turned out I am able to remove the back seat and lift the rear floor panel by the hinges just like the engine cover. Makes it easy to service all the parts back there. I did not bother to put the hatch above the shaft seal back in. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 10:37pm
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Hey Keegan, I think we found a hull that was actually worse than your's!! Man, talk about wet foam and rot, this is a classic!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 10:38pm
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Brian,
I am probably not going to refoam, but putting it in the water before buttoning up the floor is definitely a good idea. Tim and Keegan, Are these photos what you are talking about? I see the difference in the stringer design where the exhaust is pocketed between the main and secondary stringers. Is the extra secondary stringer lamination sufficient to beef up the structure and compensate for the lack of foam (assuming foam is structural)or will I need additional cross braces? I am at the point where I am formulating my rebuild plan before I remove any stringers. 
 ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-14-2011 at 10:50pm
Pete, You aren't kidding! I knew this boat was a classic when I bought it, I just didn't know what kind of a classic. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-15-2011 at 10:48am
The foam is structural- the hull/floor/foam sandwich makes for a nice strong structure. The smaller, thicker hull youre working with is fairly sturdy, but Id add some additional ribs both for structural and floor support. Spacing them every 2' would probably be fine. ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: November-15-2011 at 10:59am
Holy extra heavyduty secondaries Batman!!!! |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-19-2011 at 9:04pm
Pulled the engine out today. Came in to post some pictures and began reading the composite stringer thread. NOW I am more confused than ever.  I am planning on using Douglas Fir, but am having second thoughts about putting wood stringers in the boat and just waiting for the rot to begin again. I guess I will take a bunch of measurements, grind out the wood in the transom for the exhaust, rudder and lifting eye and wait for a miracle stringer replacement to come along before Christmas. I wish you guys would hurry up and figure this out for me. I thought this would be an easy job guess I was wrong (sarcasm). I guess I will just take my wife out for dinner and drinks.
No wonder the lag bolts won't tighten up, threads are full of wood pulp. 
Really considering putting a chevy 350 in this boat. I'm just not a Chrysler guy. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-19-2011 at 9:30pm
|
Since you have been going through the stringer threads, hopefully you have picked up on the pro's and con's on doug fir over composite. I really feel it comes down to cost and how much time you want to spend. Composite will cost more and take more time! However, I feel there's nothing wrong with a doug job, CPES and epoxy.
Keep the engine - you're not a Chrysler guy? They make absolutely fantastic marine engines - do NOT compare them to automotive. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-19-2011 at 11:44pm
| Chryslers sound great, too! Definately old school sound that goes great with that boat. |
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: November-20-2011 at 12:42am
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I agree keep it chrysler. That is pretty much as original as you can get. Watch out how you leave it sitting out of the boat. The oil pan is cast aluminum and big bucks to replace.
Scott ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: November-20-2011 at 12:51am
| Wes. You have to keep the chrysler. Your project looks to be coming along nicely. I dug out foam this week. No fun at all. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-20-2011 at 12:40pm
+ 1 What do yall think about a composite stringer system as a first project? From what I can tell, composite is more technical along with the time and cost. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-20-2011 at 4:37pm
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Doing the job exactly like it came only replacing the wood with coosa I dont think it particularily hard in terms of difficulty. (This means refoam and fiberglass skin over the floor. In fact when compared to doing a full cpes job where you take care to seal every screw, hole etc it may in fact be easier to achieve the same result. But there is no doubt the Coosa has some expense. There is the effort to laminate together to coosa into longer shapes for the stringers but after the effort it similar only you dont need to cpes.
It is going foamless that adds some extra steps. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-21-2011 at 11:50am
|
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all of your input. I am putting the Chrysler engine back in because it is the original engine. The reason I considered changing to a Chevy is that I have an opportunity to buy a marine 350 engine (probably still going to buy it). I think I have made up my mind to use douglas fir, CPES, no foam, drain holes, extra ribs added for strength and leave the exhaust cavities accessible with removalbe panels that span to the secondaries. If I throw some pool noodles in before the floor goes on it will be a last minute decision. I was at that point where I needed to pick a path and move forward and I have. I'm feeling pretty good about the direction I have chosen and believe that based on what I have learned on this site I can do a good job even though I have never worked with fiberglass before. I appreciate all of your opinions and hope to lean on them as I progress and regress all at the same time. Thanks, Wes ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: November-21-2011 at 7:38pm
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the only downside to the pool noodles i used was that mine arent secured and they must move around a bit and the foam is breaking down, also one winter mice got to them . all in all quite a sucess............. ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: November-22-2011 at 5:35am
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I am not a fan of noodles after I found the heavy as concrete noodles in the bilge of a boat I restored. One must wonder about the quality of the foam used in a cheap toy VS U S Composites closed cell flotation foam. Another thought I have, that I have no research to back it up, but it seems logical to me, is that by increasing the surface area of the foam dramatically as using multiple noodles does, it seems logical that it has much more surface area to absorb water through.
If you use your boat like this I believe some type of flotation is appropriate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=68AOltMu768 - Flotation ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-22-2011 at 9:49am
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what about glueing concrete foam to the underside of the floor, its pink and closed cell, you just dont want a place that will trap water.
will you guys ever go out in a rowboat? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-22-2011 at 12:42pm
|
John,
I hope I never submarine my boat like that, but my wife may drive occasionally (after several weeks of intense instruction) so the boat may see that kind of crazy driving. Eric, I am not going out in a row boat- too much work. Foam of any kind is probably not going into my hull, I just seem to have that thought creep into my mind every now and then. I have a serious question though, when disassembling my engine and trans I found a bunch of rust flakes covering the top of the trans cooler. Obviously not a good situation but I assume the water flows from top down. In your experience does this mean my manifolds are flaking, cutting off water flow to the cooler and contributing to killing my trans?  ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 10:57pm
When I pulled the engine out of the boat I noticed a core plug (freeze Plug) laying in the bilge along with water and some coolant. I guess that when I drained the block the drain hole was plugged and I didn't get all of the water out. Just filling the engine with coolant was not enough to "winterize" the block. Next time I will keep the drains open when filling with coolant to see it coming out the drain before capping it off. Hopefully no damage like a cracked block, but I am going to disassemble and inspect the engine. Rings, bearings, gaskets, freeze plugs, seals and valve job at a minimum. I am learning alot....the hard way.
Trans crated, need a new damper too. List is getting longer and I haven't even started making a list.  ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:16pm
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You just trying to slip the picture of the turbo by everyone or what?? ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:22pm
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Just trying to be funny ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 12:03am
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I have two that are not in use if want to get serious.
|
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 9:54am
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normally the cooler flow is from the bottem of the boat right to the "in" side of the cooler, how was yours plumbed, I just did a complete r and r of a trans, the guy winterized it when he brought it to me, well i pulled the hose to the cooler and it was packed tight with sea-weed...he told me he seen that and thought it was some type of screen and left it in there...in hindsight he did remember the boat being very sluggish after runs and his temp gauge was not working...so the cooler affects the entire system ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 1:23am
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I haven't posted in a while, been busy working and going to school- plus sneaking in the stringer replacement job when I can. It has been alot of hard work that has been made easier by the people who have gone before me. I really learned alot from reading on this site and have had no real surprises, except for the cake decorating bag of molten epoxy that I had to throw out of the boat to prevent 3rd degree burns on my hands I thought I would post a few photos:    Pulled out 2 stringers that were good for templates  Thank God for Tyvek suits and asbestos rated full face respirators  4 1/2 inch Angle grinder and 15 36 grit flap discs ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 1:38am
|
I couldn't find clear vertical grain Doug Fir, so I ended up buying construction grade Doug Fir and stacking inside my family room for a month to get it down to 9% moisture content Wife: how long is that wood going to be in the house? Me: til I put it in the boat. Wife: So, you are saying it is here permenantly? Me: &^%$#@)(*&^  I shaped the stringers using the template stringers, bevel gauge and a carpenters square. Power planer made short work of the changing angle of the bevel. I replaced them one side at a time using 2X for both the main and the secondary stringers. Test fitted them, and then coated with CPES.  I made fixtures before removing the stringers, but had to add a small piece of the fiberglass that I removed to compensate for the bare stringers. I replaces port stringers and then removed the starboard and got out the grinder....again!!!  Flipped my fixtures around and installed the other stringers, CPES, Cloth, Peanut butter.  Filled in some small gaps between the hull and stringers, put in some fillets, and I have 2" and 4" tape down. I am putting 8" and 12" Biax on both sides with 12" biax over the top of the stringers tomorrow. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 1:46am
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How is this for a clueless boat guy who is eternally optimistic: I am going on vacation the week of the fourth of July and want to take this boat with me (and ski behind it!) My plan is to be done by then. I have been buying parts for the boat all winter- gas tank, fuel pump, fuel hose, rebuilt the carb, exhaust hoses, copper pipe, New damper, rebuilt trans, ladder, the list goes on and on. I wnated to state my idiotic goal in public so that it will motivate me to work night and day to meet my goal. I'm just saying.... ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 2:54am
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Ty Pennington can build an entire house in a week, I'm just saying. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 7:58am
------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: DrStevens
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 8:45am
| You are going to be a busy beaver, cool era Mustang. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 9:39am
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Wesley, I'd say you are optimistic for the 4th but just keep going and see what happens. It may work out. So far the job is looking fantastic. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 10:01am
| Looks great Wes. Have a great 4th of July! |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 10:13am
He's looking for us to pump him up, motivitate and help him get er' done. Don't be so negative Pete. he might have the rest of June off. Great job, looking good she's coming along. Ya got exactly 3 weeks left. Drive on with a vengence!
I'm still laughing over this one! ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: June-14-2012 at 11:28am
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Looks like super nice work. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: June-14-2012 at 1:37pm
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Very nice work. You're getting there..... keep pushing forward! ------------- |
Posted By: 80SN Barnfind
Date Posted: June-14-2012 at 3:41pm
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Love the jigs you used to hold the stringers. Looking good, hope you hit your date. ------------- Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together. |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 12:33am
Well, to no one's surprise except mine, I didn't get the boat finished to take on vacation. I still had a great time- as great of a time as you can have for 10 days in a cabin with 5 women (all related to me and I'm not from Arkansas!!). I worked as hard as humanly possible but fell short. We skied behind an 18 inboard outboard and I was pertty down in the dumps every morning at 7:00, looking at Otsego Lake when it was like glass and wishing I could fire up the V8 inboard. We are back now and I am ready to finish the boat but not rush the job. I've come too far to cut corners now. The following photos detail the progress up to June 30th, when I admitted defeat and left for up north the next morning. All of the fiberglass done, 2", 4", 8" and Biax on both sides and over top of the stringers  Supports installed, PVC through the bulkheads  Through hull wood glassed in  Exhaust and Lift eye ring wood glassed and Biax'd in.  Time for the floor to go in- no foam, no noodles. floor CPES'd and bottom side has a layer of cloth epoxied on it  Luckily I have plenty of large, heavy rocks to weigh the floor down until the thickened epoxy dried ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 12:43am
| Stringers look great. Nice work. |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 12:57am
More photos- just had a scare where all of my boat restoration photos disappeared- Dang Friday the 13th. Thank goodness this is my lucky day. The photos are back and now backed up on a flash drive. Floor in with CPES on top and layer of cloth on it. The floor to hull joint has thickened epoxy and taped to the sides of the hull with 2", 4" & 8" tape.    I was so busy I neglected to take photos of the installation of the copper exhaust pipes, harness, gas tank, new cutless bearing, strut, shaft and coupler. I adjusted the position of the prop shaft through the shaft log. At first the prop shaft was not centered in the shaft log opening (it rubbed on the side and top of the hole. I adjusted the strut by putting a washer under each front bolt hole between the hull and strut. I then had my assistant move the strut slightly until the shaft was completely centered in the shaft log hole. I tightened it down and have perfect alignment through the hole and plenty of 3M 5200 sealer on all hull protrusions.  Carpet is down, access panels over battery, rear access and second rear access under back seat. I'm having a problem with the back access panel. The exhaust sticks up because I used one piece exhaust tips instead of the pipe and trim ring that were original to the boat. The one piece tips cause the exhaust hose and copper pipe to rise up and prevent the panel from laying flat onthe stringer tops.  Panel sticking up- not sure what to do to fix this. I am considering notching the panel for clearance.  The back seat covers the rear access panel completely. I may need some help on what to do about this- any suggestions?? ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 1:03am
So here is as far as I got before I realized that I was going to have to continue after vacation. I am going to assemble the trans to engine and attempt to install starting tomorrow morning. I appreciate all of the help this site has given me. I haven't had to ask too many questions because of all of the detailed restorations on the site. I will keep the photos coming.   I feel like I am getting close and can't wait to see it when it is in the lake for the first time. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: ultrarunner
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 1:15am
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Nice work on the stringers. However, Im curious as to the reason for only two scuppers on the inboard stringers, none on the outboard stringers ( that I could see), and none in the boxed out areas? Water will get in there again, ya know! |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 1:43am
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I didn't take enough photos at every stage. I added more supports just before I put the floor down. I put the supports at every plywood joint on the mains to secondaries and secondaries to hull where possible with the drain cut outs on every support. I have a drain hole in the middle and back (transom)of each main stringer. I put a drain cutout in the back of each secondary stringers thinking that the secondary cavaties can drain to the back of the hull and into the bilge through the drain holes at the rear of the main stringers. Hope I understood the question correctly. Hopefully I have enough drain holes too ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 2:04am
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It looks great! Very nice workmanship. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 9:32am
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It's looking great. Good work. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 11:12am
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Wes, keep up the good work my man. She's looking great! ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: July-14-2012 at 2:36pm
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Nice work
|